Grace? ...

so what's all this about a new covenant then?

Hey I heard about grace being free from God, but what is it and who gets it ?

Grace turns out to be 'unmerited forgiveness.'... sounds too good to be true , can one sin as much as one fancies and then get unmerited forgiveness, a licence to carry on sinning and forever saying one is sorry ?

Ah, St Paul at last with the answers :-

Rom 6: 1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
...
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Ok, so when one stops sinning because of grace, one is free to love, to be righteous, holy ... so can one get grace ?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God:

hey a free gift from God, I just love free gifts, but never imagined one so valuable as this though ....seems like there must be some riders to this, are there?

Hey thanks St Paul , for writing down the answers, it makes it all clearer perhaps when men are so divided on what they say is the truth :-

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made withtheir fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So fine, the ones whose fathers broke the old covenant get grace and stop sinning , having their old sins forgiven , they cease their iniquity and get saved because of this gift of forgiveness which they never even merited , iis that right, just these of the House of Israel and the house of Judah get saved by grace like God says here?

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Who is this Jacob then ?

Genesis 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

So the 'children of Irsael' are simply those whose fathers broke the old covenant who receive the grace under a new covenant only with them... what about everyone else ?

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Wow awesome... billions of people saved after Israel, but why are Israel first ? After all they did not merit being chosen to be first by God... so why did God choose them to be first , what role do they play that makes them need to be first ?

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Why does God need a whole nation of holy priests in His kingdom?

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Is that a joke, there is no nation of priests reigning as kings on this earth, never was ?

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

So Jesus is king of these kings, but he doesn't rule here over everyone, only over the ones whom God gives grace to and puts His law into them, descendants of Jacob, called Israel by God , in the House of Israel and the House of Judah. where then is Jesus king of kings and when is the kingdom of God not simply in the hearts and minds of saints of Israel , when is it that the sinners who died sinners get a break and a chance to live loving lives if not in this earth ?

St Peter, yes?

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wow , people can get to this new earth and live righteously there , just as the saints do by grace now , and be saved , countless many, but how did they get free of sin then, without grace ?

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Men who were sinners to death are freed from their sin by death, not by grace ! OK, but then they are not judged by grace , but by their righteousness after death in the new earth? :-

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Hey . all the sinners get kicked out of hell? So much for that theory that has been put about that they are there for eternity and can suffer even though they are dead ... it never seemed very plausible anyway ... so how did it gain so much popularity , how come so many priests teach it , are sinners allowed to say these things by God and act as if they were saints teaching His truth, not their own version?

Saint John, yes?

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.[Jesus]

John 16:13 Howbeitwhen he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

and St Paul again , quoting Jeremiah ,the prophet of God ?

Hebrews 8:11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

So the saints have no need to teach each other , but knowing all truth of God they could teach those still sinners , where does that leave the tens of thousands of sinners who call themselves priests and pastors and fathers , but do not have all truth of God, are not saints ? :-

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

So Satan is the lord of sinners even if they put on airs of righteousness and call themselves holy , and dress up in fancy expensive robes to put on a show of authority, but they know they do not have spirit baptism to know all truth in this life , as sinners they know they have nothing to teach?

Could they not read the scripture and reprove their beliefs to every word of it , and so at least teach only what God has had written down ?

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

that is the problem for sinners then, they decide what to believe before reading and understanding EVERY word of God , and then go out and teach others , and the whole mess of divided religion has snowballed until few people know where to turn , and even forget that they could read the scripture and use it for what it is intended for ... not for the saints, cos' they know all truth from God Himself by spirit baptism? :-

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Yes St Paul, you said that already, but it is well worth repeating cos' of what it says to sinners about where to look for the truth when religion is so deeply divided....

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