Mountain Dew

I read about traditional Japanese Haiku and I have tried to pen one here. I think that it is about as traditional as I understand Haiku to be.

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Green hat sat red worn

Blocked by empty vision

Red hat lay green torn

 

Author's Note

Traditional Haiku is said to be written in a single vertical line so I have don't that here to honor the Japanese verse, but I have also written it in English: three horizontal line verse to make it easier for you to read.

Reviews

[Butch Decatoria]

i love haiku. im not certain but i think haiku is more a poem on nature, and this seems more like a senreyu to me... either way enjoyed a great write. kudos.

[realmwriter]

It is a Senryu but I didn't know that until after I wrote it. I am glad that you liked it though. It actually is about nature. The whole of it is a metaphor for spring and winter. Actually having nothing to do with a hat. Thank you for your review.

[closed]

Cool. the color makes it stand out and mold into a unique vision

[realmwriter]

Thank you. I am glad that you liked it.

[KATHY SUE SILLS]

Great poem indeed! Loved the style!

[realmwriter]

Thank you very much

[KATHY SUE SILLS]

My pleasure!

[Melliflower]

I stumbled upon your work by accident... and it's an accident i for sure do not regret. Beautiful work! x

[realmwriter]

Thank you so much. I wonder, by what accident, brought you to my work?

[Melliflower]

I was suppose to click on a different writers profile, though i clicked yours by accident! And i was going to press the back button... though i thought, "Well... i'm here now, lets check out some of his work," And i'm glad i did.

[Ruth]

A beautiful form and bold piece love...this is really stirring :)

[realmwriter]

Thank you Poppy. I am very pleased that you liked it.

[Briana O'Connor]

Very original technique here. Never heard of the traditional Haiku format. I just did what the teachers told me :P Regaurdless, I find the idea of the format and the way the words were woven together in the three verse, ingenious. Thank you for sharing.

[realmwriter]

As I have learned from Dragon, my attempt at the format isn't actually Haiku per say, it is simply the way Japanese is written. My attempt here is probably insulting at best and as Dragon pointed out isn't Haiku but rather Senryu. I guess that is about as close as I will ever come to Haiku though I will endeavor to do better. But I am very glad that you liked it and I thank you very much.

[Lyn Anderson]

Nusquam said it all as far as the technicalities are concerned. As far as the piece, nice idea, whether it conforms or not.

[realmwriter]

Now that I am learning more about Haiku, it does not conform at all, not even close. But the intent is there to the best of my naïve ability to grasp what it is to write Haiku in English. Thank you very much and I am glad that you liked it.

[Nusquam Esse]

Alright, first of all... this is actually a Senryu--Haiku uses a seasonal word as well as a cutting phrase (these concepts don't translate well into English, so the rule of thumb for English versions is that it has to be about the Seasons) Furthermore, English versions of Japanese Poetry are Never written vertical, but rather in three horizontal lines. In Japanese, they can be written either way, with modern forms often being horizontal, but traditional being in a single vertical line. But you have to understand that Japanese says a LOT more with fewer symbols (on average) than English. For Senryu, the only rule is that the piece has to be 5-7-5 syllables; although having a clever twist on the last line is standard. For more examples of Japanese poetry, I recommend checking out my 'book' on here for it--since I may be the only bilingual Japanese/English poet on this site.


Senryu I posted today - http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/omnimalevolent1/1413495/
Combination of Senryu, Haiku, and Tanka - http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/omnimalevolent1/1322501/

It should also be noted that rhyming is generally avoided in Japanese poetry; it is fine in English versions, if you so desire... but in original Japanese, rhyming is a bad idea, and is often a sign that a person is not a good poet. (Japanese has fewer sounds, and most words end with vowels, so rhymes are very easy to do, and often reflect poor taste in sentence composition. Similar to starting every sentence with He said, She said, They said.)

[realmwriter]

Okay. It has a deeper meaning that what you're reading though, I think and if you move past the hat, of which it isn't about. I wrote in both ways a single vertical line. and three line verse. Perhaps I misunderstand the rules of Haiku but I think I've got it. Because I am referring in slight to the seasons. First line: Green hat sat red worn, The grass of the mountain (green hat) is drying and parched (red worn) red being the color of rust and of relation to dying grass. Second line: Blocked by empty vision. This is simple, a storm is on the horizon. Third line: Red hat lay green torn. After the rain has come the Grass begins to come alive again. Red hat ( the mountain) Green torn) grass coming back to life "torn" from the grip of death. It's actually about spring time in the mountains and then the seasons change and the grass dies. Seasons change again, storms come and go and the grass grows back.

[Nusquam Esse]

As I said... seasonal words. Simply referring to shifting in colors doesn't make it a haiku; haiku is more about specific seasonal imagery. While what you are describing is more a philosophical approach to the nature of seasons, which is still a senryu. Doesn't matter a whole lot honestly, since the two are so similar, but this is definitely a senryu from lack of cutting phrase, to a lack of seasonal words depicting specific imagery. Since it is in English, you don't use a vertical line for it, because that isn't how English is written. Traditional Japanese is written top to bottom, right to left... only since the introduction of western culture have some books started using a Western system. So it is not so much that Haiku are written vertical, as much as that Japanese is written vertical. Since you are writing in English, three horizontal lines is the proper format.

[realmwriter]

So then what is this cutting phrase, please fill me in? I am not understanding, need an example I guess. Yes and since I can't write Japanese it loses something in formatting in a vertical line, none the less I attempt to honor that way. Would you then do me a favor and translate this into Japanese if you can? Characters and all. Is that even possible? I don't wish to be insulting and If somehow I am then I need learn from it and change it if I can to fix it make it stand out in the way that it should as a Haiku. To write a true Haiku I must learn.

[Nusquam Esse]

http://haikutopics.blogspot.com/2006/06/kireji.html This is a conversation of sorts that discusses the concept of 'cutting phrase' As I said, this is not a concept that translates into English well... Generally when writing Haiku in English, it is important to make it so that one of the stanzas has a sudden shift in mood or direction, to try and emulate this concept; since cutting phrases (kireji) do not exist in English. Couple this with a seasonal word, a description which depicts the images of a season, ex. Shuushoku in Japanese means "Colors of Autumn (above)", there is actually a list of these seasonal words (called Kijo) which all haiku in Japanese must use... but there is no such list for English versions of Haiku... so all it must do is depict a scene which embodies a season, usually in the form of a vivid image which conveys the emotional depth of that season. As I said, the vertical line is not a haiku format thing... it is a way that Japanese is written. If you are not writing in Japanese, then the vertical line thing is irrelevant. Unfortunately, there is no way of translating what you have here into a Japanese Senryu... the syllable counts are impossible to pull off. Green is pronounced Midori or Aoi (which is actually the word for Blue; but green did not exist in the Japanese language until the introduction of western culture. So older Japanese describes Green as 'blue') These are 3 and 2 morae respectively. Red is Akai (although there are many different words such as 'vermillion' and 'crimson', unlike blue/green, Japanese has had many shades of red. But none of them will be shorter than akai) Akai is 3 morae. Saying Green and Red in the same line is already at the limit of what a first or last line can contain, without even counting the description of hats, verbs, grammatical conjugations and particles (designating how the sentences parts relate to each other), or any subtle nuances you are trying to convey. The whole way those sentences are structured would make it impossible to express in even the middle line of 7 morae; while the sentences may have simple words in English, the sentence structures are actually complex--and impossible to convey in less than 10 morae. Translating between English and Japanese is very complicated (Japanese allows incomplete sentences for one, and is much more contextual), because things don't just convert into each other; and the very way of thinking is drastically different.

[realmwriter]

If I am to understand this correctly: a cutting word in Japanese is a visual symbol that one thought or feeling has ended and another is beginning, then would not that word in English be stop, as is used in the context of a telegram when the person delivering the message would speak a sentence and then say stop and thusly move on to the next sentence? As I read further in the link provided, I see that the word "stop" was referenced as a "cut" of sorts, though I do not believe that one would actually speak the word when speaking an English Haiku. In proper context, I believe it would be the equivalent of exhaling as you speak the next thought, idea, theme. Am I even close here?

[Nusquam Esse]

You are correct to an extent, it goes beyond a mere stop though; but often pushes a sudden shift in mood, even to the point of Juxtaposition. In Japanese, there is an aspect of Grammar known as particles, they are added at the end of a word to change the way it relates to the other words in the sentence. You can use it to add force, wistfulness, to designate that something if the subject of your sentence, that something is being moved towards, or that it is where something is happening... coupled with conjugations which can alter the attitude of a phrase (politeness, and forcefulness, how blunt or suggestive you are being ex. Taberu = to eat, Tabemasu = a more polite version, Tabemashou = a suggestion that you should eat) as well as how the word relates to the speaker and listener. It is very complex... :P Anyway, you can take a simple sentence, and change it's entire mood with a single sound at the end. end it with yo, ze, or zo, you give it a forceful declaration (from weakest to strongest), no or ka can be used to make something a questions, kana would imply that you are not entirely certain, while ne would make the statement a leading question (Is that so?). Anyway, the way that Japanese works allows you to create a shift in a sentences mood, and these things are not actually words, but simply particles used to change meaning and mood. We don't have these in English, so you have to emulate the general feeling. Some cutting words can be put in the middle of a haiku to give it a pause, and change the attitude of its preceding lines... other cutting words can actually be put at the very end to give the whole poem a 'dignified finish'. An example of the first one would be ya, such as it is used in the most well known haiku "Old Pond" furuike ya kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto (old pond . . . a frog leaps in water’s sound) , the ya is used at the end of the first line, it does several things... #1 it pauses the poem (the stop you were mentioning) #2 it emphasizes the previous line (which says 'old pond' #3 it makes an equation of sorts in which it invites the reader to juxtapose the prior with the following. In this case, showcasing the imagery of an old pond with the 'new' disturbances left by the frog's leap. As for the other type of cutting word, a popular one is kana, which adds a wistful impression (think 'Alas'). Anyway, these cutting words just plain and simply don't exist in English; so simply focus on making a segment either at the beginning or the end, pause the reader's eyes, and lead for a sudden shift in mood.

[realmwriter]

I think I see what you're getting at. So if I am to write a true Haiku: one, I would have to learn Japanese and two I have a long way to go in my understanding of Haiku, of Japanese. I wonder then, why is it said that English is the hardest language to learn? At any rate, I thank you for your time and dedication to helping educate the ignorant, such as me, among us concerning Japanese and Haiku.

[Nusquam Esse]

Even native speakers of Japanese have a hard time writing Haiku (I have a hard time myself, and even with knowing Japanese, my attempts are childish at best); it may look simple, but authentic haiku are very complex in the way they present themselves. So much is told in the words you don't say! I think English is claimed to be so difficult because of how many different cultures it has defused across; so it lacks consistency. Japanese is more or less consistent (at least modern). English is not the hardest language by any means, English speakers just like to think highly of themselves... :P But Japanese is not really all that hard, you just have to think completely differently (and translating is very hard). http://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty According to this list though, Japanese is the most difficult language for English speakers. Realize that this doesn't necessarily reflect actual difficulty, but more how hard it is to understand if you are used to thinking in English.

[realmwriter]

I am not sure that understand how one would think differently but I will attempt to do so. Is Japanese a language one could learn online, say with the help of audio for proper pronunciation?

[Nusquam Esse]

Pronunciation is the easiest part of it; the number of sounds are very limited compared to many languages--and while tone can impart certain moods and attitudes to what you say, it doesn't generally impact literal meaning (like Chinese) The only sounds that may take some getting used to would be ji, tsu, and the r's (ra ri ru re ro). It is something you could learn online, at least to a certain degree. In order to read fairly fluently you will have to memorize approximately 3000 characters. It is honestly a needlessly difficult language that has little practical application; since it is hardly used outside of Japan. Granted, classical Japanese literature can be beautiful; but I don't know if it is worth learning a language for 3-4 years. Is there a specific aspect of Japanese that is appealing to you?

[realmwriter]

The language is just beautiful I think. And I understand it better and can speak it, I think a world would open to me that I have otherwise been blind to. I really like how you describe it and how I've heard it spoken. It sounds, I don't know, almost fluid, but slow and fast at the same time. The emphasis that is placed and where. Maybe I am naïve but it's sensual to me.

[Nusquam Esse]

mmmm... I can understand the sentiment to a certain degree. I find classical Japanese to have a lot of beautiful ideas in it; but modern Japanese... not so much. The language became regulated by the government after WW2, and a lot of beautiful, unique, and complex ideas were stripped from the language under the pretense of making the language more convenient. I also find the sound of it to be a bit choppy, since almost every sound is made up of a consonant and vowel ex. wa-ta-shi-wa-sa-ka-na-ga-su-ki-da-yo. The grammar is certainly interesting, I certainly have to agree with that; I often find myself wishing that English had some of the elements... especially the option of ending sentences with particles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_particles
As far as opportunities to use it... there are not many, since outside of Japan, the language has very little use; I spent some time in Japan, so at least it was useful then... But I often go months between chances of using it outside of IMing with friends. Still, since it is so different from English, you can learn a lot of ideas which plain and simply do not have English equivalents, and it does really change the way you think after that. Ex. In a senryu I wrote the other day I use the phrase 往事渺茫の後影 (Oujibyoubou no Ushirokage). (往事) means something that we need to revisit, those memories that we reminisce about; it has a certain longing distance to it, like trying to remember the cherry blossoms that day you met your first love. The second half of that first word (渺茫) is a speck, more insignificant than a piece of dust, drifting across a vast plane of infinite emptiness; it is like an extreme version of a needle in a haystack, but it carries a strong feeling of isolation and darkness. Combined together, it makes an idiomatic phrase which describes how our most cherished memories seem like dust in a void that we can never find or remember. It is a very overwhelming image... This is then used as an adjective to modify the second half of the phrase (後影) which is the image of a person who is standing in front of something so bright that all you can see is their silhouette, and it is fleeing/fading away from you--something that you may chase after, but which you will probably never catch. So these concepts all combine into a single concept which seems almost impossible to actually describe, but is filled with emotional poignancy.

[realmwriter]

It is none the less beautiful to read and to hear. With particles of which you speak, it seems to me to be very poignant. Japanese captures what English cannot. There may be little opportunity to use it on this side of the ocean, none the less, they will still present themselves in due time. At which I would like to be able to use it well.

[AprilRN1210]

No idea about a Haiku... don't know the rules, or any of that... so can't really critique this.. it was colorful... it confused me... I dunno about this one Derick... would ask dragon, he could tell you more than me... will send him RR...

[realmwriter]

Okay well thank you for reading and sending dragon a rr

[Nusquam Esse]

And I have noticed, and sent my advice... :P Let me know if you have any further questions on the subject Derick. I am probably the most knowledgeable person on this site about Japanese poetry. (due to knowing Japanese, and reading a fair amount of classical Japanese literature)

[realmwriter]

Cool....... Thank you