Mathematics Is Incestuous

Inside a World Inside a World Inside a World Inside a World Inside a World

Can you use math to talk about math?
To reveal a deeper reason
(inside)
To see further

                        Outside

Can we use the world
To see ourselves. . . 
Inside a world Inside a world Inside a world Inside a world Inside a World

Reviews

[Lyanth]

We affect the world, our footprints, fingerprints and DNA litter it like a crime scene.
Much in the same way an investigator can tell you accurately about the criminal from only his crime scene, we can tell much about ourselves from the world we've touched and molded.
Not a pretty story...

[Davidgeo]

Depends how you look at it. I spend a lot of time looking at things from a scientific efficiency point of view and the story, more often then not, is quite a lovely one. But it's impossible to ignore the bad stuff out there as well... even when it's a requirement for good things to happen it still sucks when bad s**t happens or people do stupid things en masse.

[Lyanth]

There are equal parts good and bad, but one drop of coloring taints an entire glass of water. Therefore likewise despite our many good stories, the blood of our past and present taints the lens many see it through.

[Davidgeo]

Again, it depends how you look at it. It's not an unreasonable argument to make when saying what seems to be tainted today is a required shade we must pass through on our way to a better way of doing things. If a series of massive global catastrophes hadn't devastated the habitability of this planet for millions of years at a time several different times over extremely vast amounts of time we would not be having this conversation right now. Everything would still just be slime mold and single celled bacteria.

[Lyanth]

Understandable, that's why I said many, not all see it this way. My views of origin differ, so I cannot say I level with your argument, however I agree trial and error are necessary, uprisings and downfalls are constant..
I just see no need for history to repeat itself so often, however, we are among one of the more stubborn species it seems. Perhaps it is necessary for nations to crumble so no reign is prolonged forever.
Nothing good or bad can last an eternity.
With the exception of good or bad itself..

[Davidgeo]

Compared to other species we are among the least stubborn, I would argue. Culturally speaking especially, we evolved extremely rapidly which means change and adaptability have been among our more strong suits as a species. Even biologically speaking that could be said. The dinosaurs stayed relatively the same for millions of years, even most animals alive today aren't much different than their ancestors. Humans change rapidly and adapt well to a plethora of environments.

[Lyanth]

Well see that's where our different perceptions of life come into play. I cannot argue that point, for in your version, it would be true, we are least stubborn when it comes to change and adjustment, but | would not call it a matter of stubbornness as much as a matter of adaptability and intelligence.
We may adapt and grow better than other species with a more limited scale of life, that does not mean they attempt to defy change.
Humans however, for all of our change and adaptation, still war over menial things, still cause our own downfalls, still self-destruct and crumble into a reduced lifestyle of lessened intelligence for a while before slowly rebuilding over and over and over as has been the pattern shown in history for centuries.
In my perception, we are highly stubborn in certain areas, as well as highly intelligent. This aids our downfall.

[Davidgeo]

To be honest, I think the entire evolution of the physical world is a series of stops and starts, progressions and regressions. And the timescales it takes place over aren't comprehendible to creatures as short lived as human beings. I'm pretty sure none of us really know whats going on... which at least keeps it interesting.

[Lyanth]

Very true for nothing can be entirely proven in the way of evolution..Maybe we'll find out one day.

[Davidgeo]

Well... some things can be proven, but, to really talk about that we'd have to start talking to each other in mathematics. I'm sorry for bringing math and chemistry, etc., up all the time... it's what I know best so I try and translate the world around me mostly through that.

[Lyanth]

Don't apologize, those are your tools of interpretation, helping you understand the world around you.

[B-poet]

An intriguing and inquisitive notion that's meant to be tested. The answer lies within the variables of the question itself. Nice work. A clever and riveting short poem. :)

[KWP]

I have always posed the question ... we humans created numbers, created math... if we had of turned a different corner and created something else ... where would we be now?

It's interesting to me how everyone of us interprets the world - take you for example - you have a science brain - me well, I tend to like tapping into inherent knowledge ... and here we are usually (not always) arriving at the same point.

I've been busy - how are you?

[Davidgeo]

This is going to be long... We likely invented numbers but we did not invent math. Numbers don't really exist; math and pretty much every other hard science is founded on extremely abstract discoveries which lead to even more abstract descriptions of the natural world that we eventually use for discovering more discoveries or inventing (or refining invented) things useful to our specific situation at this time in the universe... invention and discovery is how I like to differentiate 'applied' vs 'theory' (which gets me a lot of s**t from engineers but, whatever). If it has to do with natural science and research we discovered it... if it has to do with the efficiency of pre existing processes we invented it. But you don't have to be a research scientist to discover things and you don't have to be a mechanical engineer to invent things... sometimes this gets forgotten.

Did you know that babies know how to "count" pretty much right out of the womb? They don't use numbers but studies have shown that through age three almost every child correctly chooses a larger group of coins (or whatever) vs the smaller group as long as the numbers don't exceed 4 or 5. Essentially this means our brains are intuitively wired for small multiplication problems before almost any other higher brain function. We are all born to do math, just not with numbers. Think about how your sensory organs work... the data sent to your unconcious brain to be decoded and processed into images, sounds, touch, etc. is all "math" and if we were to have to consciously do it we'd have to know, and be able to do it significantly faster, more math than the most accomplised mathmaticians of all time. You don't know it but your brain knows calculus, trig, differential equations, topography, symmetry, stats, physics, applied mechanics even a little chemistry and biology... and it knew all of this without being taught.

As far as our brain differences are concerned... you and i are far more alike than we are different. There are two main kinds of techniques our brains use to think about things... focused, and diffused. Focused is good for making direct connections like, 5 * 10 = 50. Diffused is good for making broader connections (big picture) like, why does 5 * 10 = 50? You can't use one without the other but most of us lean on one a lot more than the other. Focused thinking is objectively harder but the importance of diffused thinking makes it no less useful. The real genius's amongst us have the ability to use both with equal skill and on command. The rest of us are stuck being better at one than the other and not able to completely control when we slip between focused and diffused mode. But the brain is not much different than a muscle... you can train yourself to think differently. You can't train yourself to be a genius but you can train yourself to think like a genius which is really the hardest part. The easiest part to being a genius looks to be the impossible part for the rest of us... they were just born with it.

Whoa. That was long. Sorry about that.

I've been well. Nothing too spectacular, which is a good thing when you're unlucky. How have you been with your busy-ness?
Oh yeah, there's a book I want to recomend to you that is like brain streroids for people who think they don't have a science or math brain... it's called "A Mind For Numbers" by Barbara Oakley. It's not really a math book so don't be scared.

[KWP]

I feel like I have just had a sit down session with my dad after reading that - that's a great thing. My dad has an incredible brain, I thank him for gifting me the need to forever think deep and ask questions. he, like you articulates precisely.

Im gonna ask him his thoughts on the whole universal math thing - perhaps I have just always thought similar but with different words (being a word girl) I need to think about that - it's 4:30am and I gotta go to work ... hmmm

I'm fine busy phase - wondering where my head will be at when it passes - more time to think again I imagine - the book - yeh okay I will give it a crack.

happy day

[A Soap Mess Stories]

Good read. Some interesting questions.

[SeaJay]

I've been told the universe is made up of numbers. Every being within it has a number, a meaning. Codes, Codes and numbers make up the great secrets of life. Everything is a puzzle, a riddle, a problem to be solved. The universe is a spiral and that pattern continues throughout the past, present, and future. Beginning at the bottom, it churns and spins continuously. Recycling everything that enters within, churning, lifting, mixing, combining. Everyone has a journey, a path....and we all have of numbers, too, through numerology and the time of our births. Numbers are never ending, as is the universe, as we know it.
I am no professor, scholar, or genious. I understand one plus one, and know when you lose someone or something, that is a loss...a subtraction from the whole.....but that is just my deduction, my interpretation, my " take away", if you will; of my understanding from this poem.

*Peace*Light*Love*Laughter*

[Davidgeo]

I don't know... you might be a little smarter than you think. Or smarter than you want others to think...
You seem just a little bit too aware.

[Chris Shaw]

I was pulled in to your poem by the interesting visuals, layer upon layer and it got my mind thinking about a slice of rock and the strata within it. I don't think about maths everyday, but I do ponder on physics and the expanse of what I don't know. And those black holes in space and time are mind blowing. That's where you took me. I'm sure a mathematician would tell me there's maths in everything :)

Chris

[Davidgeo]

Thanks. If it makes you feel better, the more you learn the easier it is to lead yourself into a maddening circle of unanswerable questions. It's a good news/bad news thing... but there's just a tiny bit more good news than bad news that makes it all not just tolerable to ponder but also a form of beauty in it of itself.

And yes... there's maths in everything. It's where it all probably started if "starting" is even a "real" concept to begin with.

[Mel]

This reads like a Cummings poem. Visually appealing and thought provoking. Nice!

[Davidgeo]

Cummings you say? That's pretty high praise. Thanks for that.

I'm glad you could find my writing thought provoking. I think a good thought provoking poem is almost better at waking the brain up than a giant cup of strong coffee in the morning.

[Anne’sRants]

I like the visual aspect of this poem. The placement of your stanzas to more clearly convey your thoughts. Nice job

[Davidgeo]

Thanks. The evolution of my writing has accelerated mainly due to thinking about topic's from additional angles such as the visual and numerical. Writing productively is far, far less about the writing than we probably want to realize.