Flame Wars

Usually I don't write stories.  But this is a topic I feel needs to be addressed.  And since I have intimate experience with both sides of the spectrum on this matter I thought I might share my insight from those experience's.

People who incessantly talk s**t about a single individual over a long period of time get a weird, unhealthy satisfaction from it. I'm not talking about a little jab here and there, or a small argument with someone. . . I'm talking about a weeks long campaign specifically dedicated to bringing a single individual down.

 

When a person tries to pull someone down over long periods of time it's usually a sign of cognitive dissonance and extreme insecurity. That person thinks they are pulling the other person down closer to their level and closing an imaginary gap between them, thus making them the "better" person because deep down inside... they feel inferior and lack genuine self esteem.   In reality, there is no gap... it's a thing that person has subconsciously manufactured to make themselves feel more relevant and productive than they actually are without doing any original or imaginative work in reality. Their "achievements" and satisfaction from carrying on with petty hatreds are all in their head, the "purpose" that drives that hatred is all in their head, their entire "reasoning" behind such behavior in general is all in their head.

When was the last time someone objectively better than you at anything focused specifically on you over long periods of time solely for the purpose of "s**t talking", or constantly wrote "hate poems", or incessantly spread lies, stories, tales and exagerations about you? The answer is probably... never. Only weak, insecure, and people who feel guilty about something believe that they need to do this over and over and over again. 

Always remember that internet flame wars are fought with imaginary bullets... they can only hurt you if you let yourself truly believe that any of this s**t is relavent to real life or a productive way to express yourself in any sense of the word.

Reviews

[Chris Shaw]

I left a site precisely for what I see happening here now. I've not been here a year yet and have no understanding of the history that went on before. I don't like vendettas and I don't want to be in a situation where I am being dragged in to stuff I have no understanding of. I have always found you respectful of my views even if you might not agree with them. I am happy to call on your work and intend to continue to do so David.

Chris

[Davidgeo]

Thanks Chris. I appreciate the little friendship we share on this site and appreciate the insightful reviews you leave and the discussions we have. When I mention that I don't leave a lot of public reviews on your work because I attract the wrong kind of attention... that irrational vendetta BS is what I'm talking about.

I really was hoping I could just ignore things and not have to write this post but what I thought was fading away into the background is just getting worse. And not just against me, I wrote that post on behalf of a lot of people that have gone through the same BS from the same handful of people.

My intention is to not write on this topic beyond responding to the reviews and comments under this particular post. Because the more we talk about it the more attention we give to the wrong types of people and the more emboldened and enraged they will become leading to a circle of unproductive non sense that really has nothing to do with creative writing.

Thanks for judging me as you see me and not as how someone else wants you to see me. It's the sign of a strong and independent mind to, no matter what conclusions you come to, come to those conclusions on your own.

[Davidgeo]

Thanks Chris. I appreciate the little friendship we share on this site and appreciate the insightful reviews you leave and the discussions we have. When I mention that I don't leave a lot of public reviews on your work because I attract the wrong kind of attention... that irrational vendetta BS is what I'm talking about.

I really was hoping I could just ignore things and not have to write this post but what I thought was fading away into the background is just getting worse. And not just against me, I wrote that post on behalf of a lot of people that have gone through the same BS from the same handful of people.

My intention is to not write on this topic beyond responding to the reviews and comments under this particular post. Because the more we talk about it the more attention we give to the wrong types of people and the more emboldened and enraged they will become leading to a circle of unproductive non sense that really has nothing to do with creative writing.

Thanks for judging me as you see me and not as how someone else wants you to see me. It's the sign of a strong and independent mind to, no matter what conclusions you come to, come to those conclusions on your own.

[KWP]

the thing is you see, people get caught up on the little things, they get attached, they also misinterpret (which is very easy to do on an online forum) they get offended too easily, they think they are king or queen behind their words ...

I mean seriously man, this whole generation of internet communcation has such wonderful qualities and such negative qualities like people relating to all of the above.

I mean, this internet BS has become an offshoot to our lives and we can either treat it as what it is ... communication between strangers who have the opportunity to add goodness or add negative energy to each others lives - or, we can view it as, well another trajectory that matters naught because unless we actually meet each other, then what does any of it matter???

The internet has been a great lesson for detachment for me.

Saying that, I have met some bloody awesome people on the net who I honestly believe will remain with me for eternity, some of us may even meet up in the next. I have learnt a lot from each and every person I have met but I have vowed never ever to let somebody else thoughts, opinions, ideals or personalities affect my life in the here and now - well not to any extent that I get upset about it.

People are soft these days. Too soft. They should all Harden the f**k up me thinks. And also because of the population explosion there are many more unintelligent people everywhere too - this requires a whole lot more patience :D

Not that I am one iota more special than anyone else - nah man I am just me :D X

[Davidgeo]

It takes a lot of energy to approach the world as yourself with ease, confidently. The internet makes it so much harder sometimes. But the interwebs also give us more opportunities to find out things, and to reveal things about ourselves, than would ever be possible without it. How communication like this is used says far more about the user than the medium used to communicate. And of course... some people are just bat s**t crazy no matter what anyway. Though, I do think poetry communities do things differently on the whole. Pretty much everybody here is at least a little bit weird. What kind of lunatic narcissist posts their amateur poetry online hoping total strangers read and review it?

[KWP]

That last sentence made me laugh out loud - what the hell do you mean my poetry is amateur? No way man - read it all again - it may or may not make sense :S

It's funny - I do approach the world with ease and confidence - I walk through most of my fears because I know to learn and grow there is simply no other option. Saying that, I still get caught up on psychoanalysing every single damn action I take - I put myself through hell sometimes because of my knee jerk reactions to things / people - ha! I'm still a novice - but dam you my poetry rocks okay!!!

Hi Chris :D

[John the Baptist]

I saw a nasty feud break out on another site, the result of which was that a couple of people were expelled. These things tend to produce more heat than light. Thus I stay away from them.

[Davidgeo]

If you can do it then staying away from it all is absolutely 110% the right call.

"more heat than light"... I couldn't agree more. And I really like the way you put that observation.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I know it's not a pleasant topic to read about but I hope it wasn't a complete waste of your time none the less.

[Papaya]

Everyone has an ugly side, but we get to decide who sees it and how often.

I find it healthier for me, and others around me, when I keep the ugly bits in the shadows.

I guess that's a more difficult struggle for some. I've always felt the behaviour exhibited by certain people here to be pitiful.

But old wounds heal slow and the smaller man will always want the last word. It takes a bigger man (or woman) to just say "f**k it" and not fire back. And a great deal of patience to wait out the bullets. Because eventually the noise has to settle.

You've just fired back but I'm sure it's not the last word. You've delivered with a higher degree of intellect and style for sure. But no less strategic in my opinion. You've drummed up some enviable support.

Like Chris, I won't stop visiting your poems unless you offend or attack me, personally. When I was attacked there were people who took sides but others who remained neutral and I respect that. Neutral works in a place like this where nothing is really real.

I've always found watching the back and forth a bit annoying and do wish it would stop.

Personally, I've no love for those you speak of here. I've been dragged through the coals and mud, plud harassed repeatedly by them (and by you for awhile but I'm glad we're past it.)

This site was different when I first came here. More respectful. Or maybe I just was too new and naive.

Truth is, you can't trust anyone. So everyone should just shut the f**k up and write. And in reviews be respectful. You can leave an unfavorable review without being a total dick.

And I get where Divya is coming from with the broken English comment but sometimes even with broken English you can feel the essence of a poem.

Having said that though, if we are seriously here to grow then that means providing quality feedback is part of it so we should help people. There's nothing wrong with correcting someone and offering suggestions to edit.

But, yes, at the end of the day the top page is a popularity contest. If you review a lot you will get reviews back.
It's a numbers game.

I think in this space maybe cliques are not so bad. Find people with a common agenda. If you want brutally honest critique then engage with people looking for the same and forget about the top writing. It's not like you're going to put that on a resumé and send it to a publisher.

Anyway, I'm at risk of launching into a full on rant so I'll just say that it's a shame about this site and I do agree with many of the observations you noted above.

[Davidgeo]

It is healthier to keep your shadow self in the shadow's for the most part. If you can be reasonable, rationale and nuanced sometimes it can be no less healthy to occasionally shine a little light in those dark corners of the mind to more fully understand yourself; we like to think it but the truth of the matter is that we don't know as much about our own mind as we like to think. Everyone's mind is like an iceberg, what we show the world and what we see in ourselves is only but the tip of a much larger and more complicated whole.

The problems arise when we weaponize what lies in those shadows to infect those around us with anger, hatred and mistrust... I think that's when it all turns unhealthy. And I've been guilty of doing that many times over, but, the difference between myself and some others here is that I have made concious efforts to step back and look at myself and that behavior with an eye towards personal growth in a generally positive way. I don't like being consumed with anger and I'm not afraid to admit that it has polluted both my mind and those around me at times. It's almost like an addiction and the first step is always admitting you have a problem. And unfortunately there will always be some people who just can't admit that no matter what.

I suppose you could say this post was me firing back. But I would like to think it's in a more healthy and productive way than just insulting someone or dragging names through the mud to make myself look a little "cleaner". I'm hoping those who read that post will see situations like these in a healthier light. That's probably partially wishful thinking but even if one person gets something positive out of this I will be satisfied.

I can't agree with your view on cliques. If we are here to grow we should treat everyone's work the same and come to honest conclusions about it without giving preference because we're internet friends. Like it, feel nothing about it, or hate it... if we come to honest conclusions and aren't total dick holes about expressing them everybody can grow whether we are friends, enemies, or completely indifferent to each other personally.

And I have absolutely no intention of 'firing back' beyond this post and my responses to the reviews and review comments. No matter what is 'fired back' at me I truly believe, like you mentioned, it is a far better response to just say 'f**k it' and move on. On topics such as these people are going to believe whatever they want to believe at the end of the day and it is futile to make it a priority to try and change that.

Thanks for your insightful review, I think you made a lot of excellent points and gave some good advice. I hope you stick around the site and write more like you used to, you're a good example for other writers here to follow both as a writer and a person.

[Shep]

I am in total agreement with on this I get hateful reviews no and again and I have left the site twice over the years wondering why even bother returning, but it is people like you that matter that makes the site worth it. Thanks for being m friend.

[Davidgeo]

That's high praise my friend and I really do appreciate it.

You're a good a writer, don't let that s**t drive you from this place again. I think that in time if we react in a calmly rational and objective way, that kind of bullshit will become and less and less of an issue. It's very easy to react with vitriol to these things and in the past that would of have been my standard response, but I see how counter productive that really is now. Those who this story is about know who they are, apparently they read me more than anyone else... hopefully they are starting to get the message - this is a writing site! not a place to pick up young women or vilify people for selfish reasons or spread bigoted bullshit or make up stories to paint a certain manufactured point of view, etc., etc..