I agree with so much of this intrinsic philosophy. I also believe that we move through the Divine the same as the Divine moves through us though not exactly. As we move through the Divine we contaminate it with our imperfections. But as the Divine moves through us we are purged, cleansed and inspired. I like how you emphasize the sacred in everything; the beauty and precious worth of all that is. It's a very soothing and pleasant poem to read. I enjoyed the write. Bless, F.
P.S. Pay no attention to the self-absorbed narcissist with the imperious and patronizing tone. Jackasses are everywhere and WC is evidently no exception. I honestly can't believe he's a "top reviewer". It's a misnomer I would compare in severity to calling a t**d a daisy. WC can put it in a vase and set it in the window but it's only going to stink up the entire place.
Posted 2 Years Ago
1 of 1 people found this review constructive.
2 Years Ago
thanks Fabian - I pay them no mind = no attention - I think I heard this in 2014 and live by it - W.. read morethanks Fabian - I pay them no mind = no attention - I think I heard this in 2014 and live by it - What other people think of me ... I make it none of my business. I spend no time worrying about that any longer. Nice horse Fabian - beautiful. where's the ranch?
I agree with so much of this intrinsic philosophy. I also believe that we move through the Divine the same as the Divine moves through us though not exactly. As we move through the Divine we contaminate it with our imperfections. But as the Divine moves through us we are purged, cleansed and inspired. I like how you emphasize the sacred in everything; the beauty and precious worth of all that is. It's a very soothing and pleasant poem to read. I enjoyed the write. Bless, F.
P.S. Pay no attention to the self-absorbed narcissist with the imperious and patronizing tone. Jackasses are everywhere and WC is evidently no exception. I honestly can't believe he's a "top reviewer". It's a misnomer I would compare in severity to calling a t**d a daisy. WC can put it in a vase and set it in the window but it's only going to stink up the entire place.
Posted 2 Years Ago
1 of 1 people found this review constructive.
2 Years Ago
thanks Fabian - I pay them no mind = no attention - I think I heard this in 2014 and live by it - W.. read morethanks Fabian - I pay them no mind = no attention - I think I heard this in 2014 and live by it - What other people think of me ... I make it none of my business. I spend no time worrying about that any longer. Nice horse Fabian - beautiful. where's the ranch?
• "I write the words they give me down and then I come back and read and am amazed by what they have written."
Problem is, the reader won’t be amazed. Why? Because you cheat. When you read your own work you have 100% of the necessary context before you read the first word. The reader has only the context you provide as they read. You also have intent for how the words are to be taken. So of course it works...for you.
But what about the reader, who lacks any context you don’t provide? Pity the poor reader, who’s missing the details you didn’t provide because to you it’s perfectly clear. That's why we must edit from the chair of a reader, not our own.
And remember all those reports and essay assignments they gave you in school? The techniques they taught us to write them with are nonfiction skills, useful ONLY for reports, essays, and letters—the kind of writing employers need from us.
And nonfiction is presented from the outside in—explained and reported by a voice that carries only the emotion that punctuation suggests. Great if your goal is to inform, but useless for poetry and fiction, because they’re presented from the inside out. Their goal, as E. L. Doctorow puts it: “Good writing is supposed to evoke sensation in the reader. Not the fact that it’s raining, but the feeling of being rained upon.” And how much time did your teachers devote to how to do that?
To see what I mean, look at a few lines as a reader does, bearing in mind both Mr. Doctorow’s advice, and, that there is no second first-impression. That means the words must have meaning to the reader as-they’re-read:
• Mama is Sacred
Mine or yours? And what does sacred mean in this context?
• On that we Know for Sure
“On that?” Guessing, but it seems that if we drop the first word we have the meaning you intend. But why is there an odd capitalization of "Know?"
• We lean on Her Blessing
I have no clue of what the blessing being given is, which deity is being evoked, why “blessing is capitalized, or how too "lean" on it. You know the meaning and reaction you intend the words to have. But I have only what the words suggest based on my own life-experience. And of more importance, who is this mysterious and unspecified “we” who are doing the leaning? You know, but shouldn't the one it's written for be in on the secret?
Again, you know. Again, you have intent for how the reader is to take the words. But intent doesn’t make it to the page.
• She Holds all the Cures
Again, why the odd capitalization? And an observation: You’re saying that in some unknown way, the being you call Mama, can cure covid, cancer, and VD? Was your meaning different from that? No way to tell.
But my point is that your reader gets something far different from what you get, or intend, because you’re saying things meaningful to you without providing the context to make it meaningful to the reader.
Basically, you’re talking TO the reader, but that’s fact-based writing, a nonfiction approach. Poetry’s goal is to move the reader emotionally. But for that to happen we need to engage them, not lecture them, which takes emotion-based writing. Before anything else, we need to make the reader care. We need to evoke emotion in our reader, not generate a nod and, “Uh huh.” And that takes both the desire to write poetry, and, the necessary skills of poetry. It’s not a matter of how well you write, or talent. It’s that they’ve been refining the techniques of poetry for centuries. And while we don't notice the tools of poetry in use, because, as they say, art conceals art, we do expect to see the result of using them in the poetry we read.
So keep writing, of course. But as you do, dig into the tricks of it. Mary Oliver’s, A poetry Handbook is a great resource, as is the Shmoop site’s poetry section. So give it a try.
Jay Greenstein
https://jaygreenstein.wordpress.com/category/the-craft-of-writing/the-grumpy-old-writing-coach/
Posted 2 Years Ago
1 of 1 people found this review constructive.
2 Years Ago
I think you're a bit mechanical - you see I don't need no handbook - what comes comes and what flows.. read moreI think you're a bit mechanical - you see I don't need no handbook - what comes comes and what flows flows. if a reader gets something from my poetry it's fine - if not it's fine. I'm writing for Me and to be a voice for those who Lived when they had no voice - they come to me now to be their voice - the unseen ones I'm writing of here. I'm putting down what comes to me - I guess I'll give you some explanation - but with poetry it's what the reader gets out of it for themselves - No Poet sets up every detail of every line - many of my writings are nothing but emotion. so here goes a little explanation for the one asking for one - Mama is Mama Earth in my context. Papa is Father Sky in my context. Mother Earth has all the Cures - all big Pharma does is create synthetics of what she has - creating millions of side effects and never actually cure but keep your symptoms at bay so you'll be on them for life with all the side effects. My capitalization is mostly - First and last word - and sometimes for emphasis on a word - in this one I did a bit more. It came to me and a couple years later I discovered Walter Russell - who did the same Capitalization in his Poetry - He went into his chamber for 40 days and Wrote the Message of the Divine Illiad - but my favorite of his writes is The Secret Of the Light - He was friends with Mark Twain and Edison - his first sculpture was a bust of Edison which is in the Smithsonian. He taught the Key to a good Life is letting the Divine work through you - He was a genius and a promoter of Higher Consciousness - did not follow the agenda so he's not in our education system - Allow the Divine to flow thru you - vs - being so mechanical with your Handbook talk and all - that's what I'd recommend for Mr Greenstein - Most Poets want their readers to get from their poetry what they will vs explaining everything - if you get something different than my meaning that's fine with me. I'm not here to be judged - only to flow with the flow - and learnin' to let it all go. If you let the Divine flow - maybe you won't come off so grumpy - our own truth is within each of us to Discover. cheers
Uh-huh. So you, uniquely, of all your classma.. read more• you see I don't need no handbook -
Uh-huh. So you, uniquely, of all your classmates, magically know the techniques of poetry, simply by existing. And those poor b******s who work hard earning a degree that specializes in poetry learn nothing you don’t already know, because you’re already perfect by reason of birth.
Yet somehow, their work ends up in poetry journals that people pay to read, while yours don’t. Life is funny that way.
• I'm writing for Me
Ahh…so you write for your own pleasure, then post it in a public board with the comments window left open. Ah well, you know what they say about people who pleasure themselves in public. 🤣
If you wrote for only you would wouldn’t post it in a poetry forum, for poets and people who enjoy poetry, to read. And you wouldn’t leave the comments window open. You WANT to be noticed. And you WANT people to be moved by your work.
• I guess I'll give you some explanation
Nope. If you have to explain what your words mean AFTER they’ve been read, you’ve failed. No one had to explain the poems of Shakespeare, Ogden Nash, Dorothy Parker, or Robert W. Service, or….
• with poetry it's what the reader gets out of it for themselves
If that’s true, and the reader is expected to take their own meaning, who needs you? Any poem will do, the more confusing the better. In fact, based on your comment, here’s the best poem ever written:
- - - - -
The
- - - - -
The reader has total freedom to give any meaning they care to, and, it can be as long as the reader wants..
• many of my writings are nothing but emotion.
No. They’re you talking TO the reader, about YOUR emotion, presented without context. You’re using the nonfiction writing techniques we’re given in school to try to write poetry, and that can’t work because using report-writing techniques yield only what reads like a report.
The reader wants your words to move THEM emotionally, not provide information they’ve not asked for, and have no context to make meaningful. They want to borrow your imagination, not be put to work trying to figure out what you’re talking about.
You’re in the situation David Sedarus spoke of, with: “The returning student had recently come through a difficult divorce, and because her pain was significant, she wrongly insisted her writing was significant as well.”
• I discovered Walter Russell - who did the same Capitalization in his Poetry
First, he’s not a poet, and this is about your poetry. So he's irrelevant. And his, The Message of the Divine Illiad is a pretentious attempt to sound like the Bible, with lots of “thee’s” and “thou’s,” archaic at the time, sprinkled in. And, he used initial caps throughout. In fact, in all the books I found by him not one was written without caps. So your argument doesn’t work.
E. E. Cummings is the one you actually mean, and with him it was done only at times, and for effect. In fact, his name appearing only in lower case was an accident made by a publisher. In any case, you can’t say, “In one small aspect I’m trying to do what a successful writer did, and then assume both that you actually are doing it well, and that you’re not screwing up other things.
But you’re looking for praise, not to improve your writing, so I’ll just wish you luck with your writing, and bow out.
2 Years Ago
I haven't had a classmate for 35 years - I built 3 F16 Dome Simulators for the Airforce with 30 proj.. read moreI haven't had a classmate for 35 years - I built 3 F16 Dome Simulators for the Airforce with 30 projectors on each dome my last 13 years, and did flight simulator software for 12 years for Evans and Sutherland Comp. Corp - a pioneer company in the field - and interspursed in my time at E and S , I did 3 years in Michigan doing Statistical Analysis software with Ford, GM, Chevy , Volvo Saab, and also a Year for GE Medical Systems working on the L700 Ultarsound software. I don't need no Praise - I'm just writing to work on myself and if anyone gets anything from this, that's a Bonus - have a good life Sir - I did not even read but 2 sentences of your blurb - See ya
I am a man who has finally realized he needs to write down what matters to him, that I might learn from myself, what is important, what I value. To capture who I am now, for that is all we have is no.. more..