ENGLISH IS PREGNANT... AGAIN

Review turned into... you decide.

This started off as a review. Then it kept growing. In the meantime the argument over at the piece I was about to review was heating up. I just checked now and it has been taken down. I do hope it returns, for I can certainly add my two cent's worth. I'll do so anyway I guess, through this piece.

That piece was titled "Are all Grammar Nazis Fascists?" A provocative enough title on its own but then the author had added a short description, citing the piece was "for those from a Third World Country whose English is a second language and all those other disadvantaged ones who fall prey..." Something like that.

Proponents and opponents both emerged in the short time the piece was in the public forum. The author bowed to pressure - justifiably or not - and removed the piece. I read it and sure, I felt threatened by the messages it conveyed. It spoke directly to me, it labelled and defined me as a Grammar Nazi - the second word carrying the connotation of a presumed affiliation with 'Ethnic Cleansing' and the upholding of a 'Master Race'. I was offended, certainly. Yet. I understood the premise it was founded on.

So when I say English is pregnant again, I mean it.

Languages are in a state of perpetual evolution. We do not therefore speak 'Shakespearean' English today. We do not even speak the English of fifty years ago! Or even twenty years ago for that matter.

There are times during this evolution (and I am focussing on English here since a lot of this also stems from the fact that 'English' is/has become the 'World' language and as such, there is a division of those 'native' to it and those 'introduced and at times forced to communicate' within it,) when something momentous occurs. The invention of paper, the invention of the printing press, the odd dark period of suppression - and most currently - the invention of the mobile phone and ultimately, the internet.

These I call pregnancies. Times when for a period, those speaking the old language tussle with those awaiting the birth of the new one. As in every tussle, there are sides and supporters/opponents, there are words exchanged and stances taken and much verbal fuss.

That's what we face today.

The impact of technology on the 'current' English language has been swift and widespread. Everything systematically condensed - data is expensive - too many things to follow at once so distractions further compress the various conversations over mobile devices... Sentences become single words, the words themselves unrecognisable, often mere acronyms.

Those born prior lament the deconstruction and accelerating loss of their 'pre-technology' English.

Those born within it on the other hand, are comfortable and see no reason to conform or rather 'revert' to the old English ways.

There is a circle. Everyone within that circle communicates in English easily and 'faultlessly' (in their opinion) amongst each other. These are the young ones, the disadvantaged ones, the early 'adoptees'... whoever.

Then there is an outer, thinner circle. Distanced from the inner by all manner of circumstances: Location, ethnicity, level of education, state of their Nation... They look at the communication taking place inside that circle and feel outrage, outright concern about the degradation of their English language. They watch in horror and despair as it is taken apart, condensed, reduced to a level of comprehension deemed everything from excruciating to unfathomable.

Yet they do nothing. "English is butchered, no one can spell any more, the Education System is failing, English is lost... but what can we do about it? It's the way the world is going... sadly..." They do their best to remain firmly on the fence, ignoring all the tussling.

There is yet a third even narrower circle. These so named 'Grammar Nazis'. They stand outside vigorously rebelling against this new technology-driven system which not only encourages, but further condenses language by reducing even emotions to emoticons, 'meaningful messages' to mere memes. They see every misspelled word, every unstructured sentence as another sign of loss, another small death, and feel it their duty to fight - to preserve the English they in turn believe is sacrosanct.

Yes, there should be an effort to 'preserve' the current English language in its proper structure and form. We (the Grammar Nazis upholding the accepted written rules) are at a time in history. Our passage deserves recognition, same as every other 'version' of us has done in the past. Our identity as peoples sharing a time in World History merits a mention... We want our literature and our way of speaking safeguarded from extinction.

We collectively as humanity hold dear and revere man's earlier attempts at language; those surviving on cave walls and stone tablets and papyrus and fragile pages between leather-bound books locked in temperature-controlled environments.

We (the current Grammar Nazis) also feel we belong there too, our version of English held dear and revered aeons from now. 

Yet at each transition period, there would surely have been the same tussle we see going on today: The stalwarts versus the progressives.

Because see, the desperation on the stalwarts' side stems from the knowledge that they are outnumbered; fighting a losing war. They know this! Progress, evolution - call it whatever - sweeps through the masses and gathers the majority, pulling them towards a re-birth. The few resisting are the minority and as more and more of us die off, the pregnancy progresses until the point of birth is reached.

By then, most will have forgotten us and our 'older' version... or perhaps they'll visit it and us now and again prodded by nostalgia or curiosity or as a lesson in history for the younger generations...

Language, English or otherwise may cease existing altogether at some future point. Already, inroads are being made into controlling and sharing thoughts... The singularity - where the clear distinction between human and machine is indistinguishable - is apparently nigh...

The progressives of today may at some near-future time face the demise of their own 'English'. They may sit on the fence or choose to fight for their emoticons and emojis and memes and the various acronyms they embrace today... For their own passage in history to be preserved...

I guess there is no getting out of this ahead of the birth. The tussle will continue, the name-calling and justifications from each 'side' will persist until they slowly fade away and the new English is birthed as the English of the times...

Author's Note

I had to.

Reviews

[Stefano Segnan]

That title caught my attention for being pleonastic, it was itching my brain. But the piece was about Grammar Police bullying people that do not know English properly due to education or lack of access to it, not about Grammar Police in general. It's an even thinner circle than the one you mentioned. It seems I misinterpreted the piece, as the author stated, but my impression was that the issue was on bullying, not on the Grammar Police. But if the definition of Grammar Police is bullying, then I cannot agree with that generalization and I indeed misinterpreted the piece.

Now, to your piece:
The lowering of a preexisting standard happens when the creative power is in free fall, if not already dead. I do not think the West - where English comes from - has any culture (creative power) left. It's a civilization dedicated to material progress and comfort, not spiritual growth.
Same happens with language, it's in decay because its creative power has waned. But this vacuum had to be filled, and it's filled not with inventiveness, imagination or creation, but with comfort and laziness, hence the use of shortened words, emojis and other nonsense.
For these reasons, I cannot call this the "evolution" of language but "degradation", which per se is not a wrong thing.
It is obvious that for all actions there is an opposite reaction. Yes, I'm on the reactionary faction, today called conservatives, or stalwarts as you call them. And yes, history, showed us that most of the times they are on the losing side.
As for the Grammar Police, while I think they are desperately needed (if they do the job properly), they are defending something I consider long dead. Ungrateful work.

[Elise Anton]

Interesting Stefano that you would view this current change as being not a part of the evolution process. It crossed my mind too as I was writing the piece... It certainly feels - as you say - like degradation is taking place, the laziness and lack of care/lack of creativity/inventiveness...

But then I thought back to the illuminated manuscripts... the beautiful penmanship... I thought of the 'Olde English', the beauty within those words... Remembering too that this writing and reading was only the privilege of the wealthy, the 'aristocracy'.

I am interested to know when you consider this 'devolution' to have begun. If I see it as you described, then I can only assign it to the point where the 'masses' attained acess to words. We have been simplifying language over centuries now... so when was the point in time - from your perspective - when our creative power waned?

You consider it long dead. A part of me does too. Is language merely a bell curve and are we therefore in decline, after first ascending? Or are we stalwarts or 'conservatives' as you called us merely refusing to accept progress because it defies our 'understanding' of language?

Huh. It just occured to me, writing this that we are simplifying language to the point of going to the beginning again. A 'modern' version of gutural sounds and cave drawings?

[Stefano Segnan]

NOTE: These are complex questions and my thoughts concern only the West:

All cultures reach and fall. Culture is defined by its creative power and language is an intrinsic part of culture. When you bargain spiritual growth and creativeness for comfort, the culture dies. That is the moment when the degradation begun. I think it has nothing to do with masses being able to participate in the trade, but with the increase in comfort (hence laziness) and the lack of spiritual research. The masses probably contributed in the lowering of the standard of the product, but not on the creative power driving a culture.
Perhaps I take myself as a measure for other people (so take that this into consideration), but young people can learn anything almost flawlessly if they apply themselves. Problem is, they do not want dedicate themselves because why should they give up the comfortable chair for a tortuous but in the end enjoyable path?
So, my guess? Somewhere between 18th and the beginning of the 20th centuries. I cannot pinpoint the exact moment in history when the decay begun, because it is a very long process and will probably still be alive for a century or two...

Also, while devolution and degradation are considered as synonyms, I do not see them as such. Devolution would mean returning to something previous, degradation would mean loss in value. I do not think language is devolving and returning to "cave" language. I think its loosing value.
Furthermore, I do not believe in evolution of societies and civilizations. They have their level of maturity, after which they wither and eventually die, and from the ashes, another culture is born.

They call it progress, I call it degradation. I am just an ordinary reaction to an ordinary action. Reasons? The decay of a plant makes the ground fertile, but its growth
makes the fruit. Both are necessary and a good thing. It just so happens that I am what I am, and thus sided for the fruit and not the fertile ground.

I hope I made myself clear (:

[Elise Anton]

I enjoy your interpretations as always... I think (at least I agree) with you in terms of when this 'decay' began.

My only discomfort I guess continues to be (and I know you pointed out these are your views specifically) the question over losing value. You and I might see it as such, but the new generations may in fact see us in turn as rigid, not easily adapting to change, clinging to the 'safety' of the known?

I agrre with the civilizations' bell curve, I've studied this same pattern repeating and repeating... Thus my reference to future technologies and the perhaps inevitable dissolution of language altogether.

In the meantime sure, I can readily agree with the 'laziness' of youth today. Given they have access to programs that will do most of the 'work' for them, i.e running each piece through word or similar and thus eliminating most errors, I think the culprit here is the fact people write 'directly' on mobile devices or on sites such as this, bypassing those programs? The ability to write on the go has merit and convenience sure - but at the cost of putting out work full of glaring mistakes and visual frustration on the reader's part.

Still, whilst I cringe and sigh (more and more so in recent years) watching the English language butchered and yes, losing most value, I feel there's something deeper than comfort and the ensuing laziness at play here.

The escalation of this 'degradation' is far more rapid than any of us could have predicted - those seeing the early signs. General 'dumbing down' aside, I am confounded by how readily this is being received and supported. How vehement (going back to the Grammar Nazi) the opposition is to 'conservative' views.
This process is speeding up/spreading far too quickly for me to comfortably assume it will be another century or two before 'the' English language dies...

[Stefano Segnan]

Safety of the known... perhaps. But history showed me what happens when a culture dies, and it is not a nice thing. I would call it more safety from the known. They are probably going to label us as conservative and old-thinking, unable to adapt. But can you change your very nature for the sake of others? Can you accept something that denies you? I always try to weigh down what is more fruitful for the human soul, and my conclusion is that eating a fruit from an existing tree is better than cutting it down and waiting for the new tree to grow. One should nurture the existing tree until the end of its time, not murder it before. The test for us is: can we be ourselves if those times come?

If you want to go beyond comfort and laziness, then think of a culture as a living organism having a spirit, a soul. What is the spirit of the west that is different from, say, the one from ancient Egypt or China or the Arab lands? You see, cultures manifested themselves in different ways, with different paintings, architecture, writings, music, so different creative power. Try comparing western architecture with the Arabian and Chinese one. I see different spirits with different purposes... What is the spirit of the west? Has the west achieved what its spirit most desired? The answer probably lies there.

[Elise Anton]

I see where you are going. Sure. presented this way, one would have to say no it has not. If one were to speak of 'spirit' being something other than this mass-consumption/greed machine driving every aspect of life in 'the west'.

What I most mourn frankly is the loss of philosophers... True philosophers, not the blog kind who spout any amount of new-age spiritualism or push the 'love everyone' message. I miss those minds which made me think, took me outside of ME. I think that's when I understood language (my language) was dying. The reference to the memes... Short bytes. Short attention spans... I really do mourn the demise of the philosophers... So sure, our spirit/culture have gone off the rails. Like you, I wonder if I can ever be me - if that time comes... Thanks again Stefano.

[Stefano Segnan]

If you take art into consideration, I see the western spirit as wanting to achieve either God or the ultimate knowledge or something like that... Gothic architecture wanted to reach God. Renaissance paintings have and endless depth in them (horizon). Science, which replaced culture in the west, wants to know everything. Why label things with "God's particle" for example? Look at the art of a culture and you will know its spirit.

For me the real value in philosophers was that they did many things, and all this research was connected. Aside from philosophy (as intended today), they were mathematicians, botanists, astronomers, alchemists, engineers, physicists, scientist. The greatest loss was when philosophy (as intended today) as a science of the soul became separated from the natural sciences, and we got specializations. For example, their research in mathematics and astronomy was also a research of the soul, and linked with their thoughts on the meaning of humanity, the self and so on. That's were their value resided. Because if I think only for the research of the soul, or of meaning for example, poets did the job better. But poets didn't bother much with connecting this with the natural world using tools as maths or astronomy.

At the moment, we can be what we are. What the future brings is the concern of the future, not ours (;

[Glen Weimann]

Hi Elise. I thought I'd peruse some of your other work, and I happened upon this one. Wow! There's a lot of angst out there in the WC community, isn't there? I must confess I scooted through your piece a bit because I was drawn to my own prejudices. Moi? I have loads! In my head I think I have a dividing line
- Language will always evolve; I may not always like the new things, but that's just tough. I usually read two books at any one time, and I'm in a Jane Austen/Charles Dickens period at the moment. It's fascinating to see how much is similar but also how much is detectably not as we would say it today, both in actual words and also in phrasing
- At any time, however, I would contend that language has a set of largely accepted norms, which i could call mainstream grammar; and I certainly expect writers on WC to try and observe these, or to veer from them knowingly and intentionally for impact. I do not like what i see as lazy spelling and grammar because I think the writer is insulting their readers and also potentially putting out statements that they haven't realised are capable of different interpretations as a result of their 'poor' grammar, inconsistent tenses, etc etc

I do have particular bugbears more generally, most obviously apostrophes, where I think writer's of commercial advertisement's that make it onto TV or posters' or magazines' should always get it right, as its their personal responsibility to their profession to maintain it's standards (all intentional!). But that brings me back to evolution and someone learning the language as an adult - in the possessive form, my book is Nigel's book, so why on earth would something belonging to 'it' not be it's??? Hey Ho. Oh My Other Bugbear Is Song Titles and Headlines Where Almost Every Word Starts with Upper Case Unless the Words are Short.

I do have rebellious moments. I believe I should say 'an historic episode', but I never ever do. What a rebel I am.

So in WC what's my stance? I will often point out or query tense, punctuation, spelling errors, but I also try to stand back from them and let the rest of the piece flow and paint its pictures. I try to balance my feedback so that my grammar comments are only a small part of the total. I tend not to 'befriend' people whose work is repeatedly littered with grammatical glitches, and neither do I tend to comment upon their work. It's evident that many such people have an audience which by its own rules (which may be non-rules) truly appreciates their writing; so be it. It's just not my bag.

Anyway, enough said. This is evidently something that gets folk to write long turgid responses like this one, so .....! Cheers N

[Elise Anton]

Thanks Nigel, appreciate your contribution and yes, you raise some interesting points. I too tend to stay away from work littered with errors - not because it necessarily is by default bad, but because I find myself internally correcting these rrors and thus not really following the story itself. That's just a me thing though. I get the odd error ot two, we are humans, not machines. But at times I detect this laziness you spoke of - and yes, there is an audience who is able to function/communticate within it, so I leave those works to them.

I get many messages from young people or people whose English is not a first language asking for my help/advice. Those I DO work with behind the scenes, as I am humbled by their awareness and their desire to improve.

Overall though, I am saddened, sure. There is a disregard creeping in about what you termed "largely accepted norms" and it is this that frightens me the most, as the more widespread it becomes/is accepted, the greater the impact on language and the acceleration to mass apathy... Thanks again for your insights!

[Glen Weimann]

You hit it exactly Elise. When I see these 'errors' I can't help but be bothered by them and I then find it almost impossible to look impartially at the whole piece. And hats off to you for working behind the scenes with folk who acknowledge their struggle and seek help.

[Elise Anton]

Oh that's the part I enjoy the most. I was there once myself... and had no one. It's a way of giving back? And I get great joy from it - maybe there's an editor lurking somewhere in me lol...

[Glen Weimann]

I must go to bed! But just quickly to say, I used to do a lot of class-based training around interpersonal skills such as consulting. Both then, and in close working relationships where an informal often mutual mentoring type relationship prevailed with a few colleagues, I have found the opportunities to help folk grow immensely satisfying. So when I came to WC and a couple of young writers from overseas responded to my feedback on their poems by asking me to explain some of my comments further and illustrate what I meant (e.g. about mixing tenses) I was glad to do so, but I found myself re-writing THEIR work. This was not a good place to be; they were polite and expressed thanks, but I don't think I helped. The lesson, or warning for me, is to be very very careful about coaching or mentoring etc when I really have no currency with the stranger sitting at their keypad. I tend to go too far with my Size 12s. So again, hats off to you. From the exchanges we've had I can readily see that you would negotiate the potential pitfalls and provide concrete substantive help in them building their skills and confidence.

[Elise Anton]

It's worked so far, but I have been lucky in that those reaching out have an avid interest in improving and work hard to perfect their work. I provide pointers and question things and leave it to them to come up with alternatives rather than spoon-feed - if this makes sense? I leave it to them to find alternatives and always with the premise they can accept/reject my suggestions or tell me to go to...

[Laura S-C]

The title is what made me want to read this piece. The moment I read it I was curious a*s to what it meant. I am sure that much of what you said in this piece I did not interpret correctly, regardless of that though I think this piece was incredible. It made me consider the way I speak and compare it to the way of my grandparents and even parents. I loved the way you described the way that we (people my age) communicate and how a conversation now holds little emotions. I personally do not text often but when I do I realise that even I, some one who loves English and the amount of emotion words can portray, use the current trends while talking. This piece has made me think about the term "lol" and how now days we use it to show we found something funny but my mother who is only thirty so years older than me used it to show how much she loved something. It makes me wonder not only about whether we will have the English language in the future at all but also about what it will be like thirty years from now. A truly incredible piece that I loved reading and will think about often.

[Elise Anton]

Apologies for the delay in responding! Thank you for offering up some very interesting observations, especially about the use of the acronym 'lol'. Looking thirty yers ahead, by reflecting on the thirty years passed, yeah, you have to wonder where language is going and what we will have left... I recently wrote a letter - as in a REAL letter, with paper and pen. I used to have a beautiful writing hand, as most of my life was spent scribbling in notebooks and such. I realised I hadn't touched a pen in years - except for filling in forms and signing stuff. I looked at my handwriting and damn, I'd lost that flair. I was writing hurriedly, and most of the words were incomprehensible to read. I tried slowing down - thinking of what I was actually writing but that didn't help. I am so used to the keyboard and the much faster way of communicating see, so my hand was doing the same to the pen! made me stop and think... Are we losing this too???

[Laura S-C]

I understand what you mean. Although I write pen and paper and school and often when a thought pops into my head and a computer/phone is not handy, I am messy and slow. I strongly believe that once I leave school I will chose not to write pen on paper whenever I can. This upsets me as for years I have written letters to friends and family. Yet, all in all I would prefer write digitally. I apologise if that did not make sense I often stir of topic when I write. By the way there was not need to apologise for the delay as I am grateful your respond at all let alone in the same week.

[Elise Anton]

Oh I usually respond the same day at the very least, so this was bad for me! Makes sense what you are saying. The sheer convenience alone. I mean I wrote the letter, then had to buy an envelope, write the recipient/sender addresses, line up in a long queue, and purchase a stamp right? It's going to take seven days to reach its destination! Who has time to do this nowdays, when you can compose and send off an emai which will be received almost instantaneously?

[charlie]

It reminds me of Melvyn Braggs "The Adventures of English", and how - no matter which way you slice it - the "English language" always has been a bit of a mongrel. Maybe always will. Is it a good thing that most communication is non-verbal?

[Elise Anton]

Maybe we are going full circle, back to hieroglyphics? Non-verbal communication sure, but how many of us can 'read' it???

[Davidgeo]

Only hard core jerks go full circle. Never go full circle if you're a jerk.

[Elise Anton]

But okay to go full circle if you're a hard core jerk?

[Davidgeo]

You jerk it hard.... all day.

Until the next one. Straight lines are for freaks and weirdos... be careful.... you'll get an STD

[Davidgeo]

Stick with the Zen Buddhist Nazi Pirates... that's a heck of a crew let me fuggin tell You...

[Elise Anton]

Striking combination... All at sea?

[Hyacinth]

Beautiful, as all of your pieces are. You convey your point in a clear way that is completely understandable. I have to say, I agree with you completely.

[Elise Anton]

Thanks Hyacinth, I had to get this one out. Me being me, always searching to understand...

[Hyacinth]

I understand how you feel, it's like your in a library Tring to read through the book covers... Or trying to understand why the author chose that certain nam.

[Hyacinth]

**trying ** name

[barleygirl]

I admire you for always caring enuf & taking the time to dive head first into the controversial issues we writers wrestle with every day. I respect the way you try to see & acknowledge all sides (very well done here, using your "circle" visual) . . . yet you're also not tiptoeing around the message you wish to express. I only wish such intelligent & sensitive debating skills were possessed by our politicians! *smile*

As for my personal observations on this topic . . . pretty much like yours . . . the world turns & life evolves, be it science, language, romance, etc. If I don't like the way things are going, I just remind myself this is THEIR world now. I gladly give it over. We didn't do such a hot job of caring for things. And future generations will make their mistakes. If they feel strongly enuf, they can try to turn back the clock on things, as the older generation has often done or tried to do. It is what it is.

The strongest thing about your piece, of course, is the "pregnancy" analogy & how you named the various events (thru time) that precipitated a new avalanche of new stuff (in many regards, not just language).

Bravo for your courage & tact & directness! (((HUGS)))

[Elise Anton]

Thanks barleygirl. As I said, this was going to be a simple review. But my level of discomfort rose with every word. So I started writing on a page instead. I understand your point of you. It IS their world. We are ebbing. I just wanted to show I guess that despite this ebbing, we still CARED for our world - or this shared world at least, in which both ends meet.

[Lalochezia]

Since I am not familiar with the original piece, I can only comment on yours:

Catchy title although I would compare it rather to a snake shedding yet another skin. The creature becomes thinner and thinner until it is barely held together, in our case by emoticons and the like.
I am entirely in agreement with yout; however, I am having trouble grasping the distinction between the thin outer circle and the even thinner, outer one of Grammar Nazis.

As a teacher, I can watch the horrid phenomenon unfold under my very nose with every class test, be it German or English. I, too, despair over this development. However, I see no way to FIGHT it, only little ways to raise awareness by pointing out useful synonyms, half-forgotten terms etc. and of course to encourage them to read.
Also I will always explore language to the fullest; not only stories but in e-mails or notes. Perhaps a catchy expression in one of these pieces of correspondence will make its reader perk up and take notice.

Other than that I fear that such development is only natural.

[Elise Anton]

Interesting observation Lalochezia, thanks for your imput. The middle layer I alluded to is the people who go through life with the 'but what can I do' attitude. They are aware, yet feel powerless to act on this awareness. As such, they are (albeit reluctantly and silently protesting) swept into the inner circle over time. There is NO such thing as sitting on the fence see, and inaction inevitably sides them with 'the winning' side.

'Fighting it' is the last stance, the conservatives - as Stefano called us - openly declaring our unwillingness to accept the inevitable...

[Lalochezia]

Like I wrote, I am contributing my part but I would not regard it as 'fighting' for what means would we have at our disposal?
There are certain structures emerging which I will never employ in my speech or writing and I will always point this out to people, in particular to students, such as the absence of commas or capital letters in text messages.
However, who will let another person dictate how to communicate in their private lives?

[Elise Anton]

We're not talking private lives here, the issue is what is happening to the English 'language' publicly, referenced by what we read both on Social Media and on sites like these.

I highlighted 'fighting', because of the labelling and the increasingly growing perceptiion that spelling/punctuation are irrelevant, (we can still understand the meaning despite the errors) and should 'mistakes' be pointed out, more often than not, the one who dares point out said mistakes is the one attacked and at times accused of bullying... So it's a 'fight' as such but one which as both you and Stefano pointed out, can never be won.

[Davidgeo]

Cause, you're an orange butterfly... and you still look pretty when you're putting the damage on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXJj4CJV2Lc

[Davidgeo]

Yeah, you did have to I suppose... In that many words though? I write poetry.... the f**k's your problem? I'll review the s**t out of this when I'm not so drunk off scotch mother f****n whiskey. I'm not you man... fug that... That's too many words....

[Lalochezia]

The only time I have ever clicked on 'No' for the 'constructive review' question. Did YOU have to express your opinion in so many words? You could have saved yourself the trouble. Sleep it off and then reread with a refreshed mind.

[Davidgeo]

The only time you ever clicked on "no"? Well, that's probably because you have no f*****g idea what is or is not a constructive review.... though, this certainly wasn't a constructive review it's pretty fuggin obvious that it's tounge in cheek... maybe I've talked to this person informally before making me more comfortable saying what I felt at that moment in time.... maybe you're a d********g.... more likely both. Most likely both. I'm going to get drunk again and go out of way to be vulgar to you for the rest of the day. Enjoy that... I know I will.

[Hyacinth]

I'm gonna sat something, and I sincerely hope that you listen to me.

What point is there in hating? What point is there in tainting a great piece of writing, huh? None, right? So don't do it. Don't hurt others' feelings like you already have.

This is a community we are all part of. It may be a virtual one, but still, in this 'community' we write about what we want to (within reason),we right as much as we want, an we write in the style that we want to. That is the WHOLE POINT of WritersCafe and I hope that you understand.

Please, think before you write...'cause a single word can change someone forever.

[Davidgeo]

I don't care about a person's world if they are so weak as to let a social media glad handing site destroy that world forever. You are trying to say my voice is worth less than yours because I believe in and value very different things... you are a hypocrite. When someone puts something out on the internet they give up the right to control how it's perceived, it is now part of something and subject to scrutiny by anyone choosing to do so. What you want is not a free sharing community, what you want is a 'only people like you' community. Well, I'm here so deal with it... block me ignore me I don't give a s**t.... even these half baked hypocritical rants people like you go in, go to town... you're all the same and your hypocrisy is always a good time to point out. And I will never say you should be meaner, more critical, or arrogant.... I know that you may not think that's the way to go and I respect your right to act how you please... you should try that thinking out from your own perspective, you'll sound less like a PC happy time fascist. So, please, think before you whine and cry about something you know very little about... You might just made a fool of.

[Hyacinth]

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not trying to be rude, or trying to convey that what YOU think is less important than what others think, I'm just asking you to be considerate.

And yaeh, maybe I do want a 'everybody likes you' community, but I know that its not what I'm gonna get. What I can get- what we all can get- is a place where people RESPECT others.
Where they respect others opinions... so of you haven't got anything nice or constructive to say, I kindly suggest that you don't say anything at all.

[Elise Anton]

Guys, really, no need to continue this. Hyacinth, thanks for coming forward, I really do appreciate it. And I do agree with you to a certain extent, I get you're feeling hurt on my behalf by what jizzy said... But if you note, he did pose the possibility of this being tongue in cheek - he and I often have these amusing exchanges/verbal spars. I am sorry that you got caught up in one :( Please don't be upset, all is good really :)

[Hyacinth]

You don't have to be sorry :). And I won't say anything more on this . But the thing is that at first I thought he misunderstood me, so I decided to clear that up. I meant no disrespect to anyone and I apologise if that's what it seemed like :)

[Davidgeo]

I don't care about any of this.

[Elise Anton]

Oh you so do care. But not in any recognisable way... Shucks.