CLOSURE

Sometimes love is like a rare elusive beautiful exotic bird

CLOSURE

Don't know when it all began, not sure how it happened

But it was in my junior high when my world stopped turning

When my life grind into a halt and turned upside down

When my grades were failing and I'm falling behind

When the moon appears to have moved farther 

and Earth and Venus conspired to swap places.

And there was me, in my early teen. A young shoot

Naïve, timid and insecure; a neophyte if you prefer

Living my early life in obscurity then like a potted plant

exposed in the open for the first time, in everyone's

plain view, not knowing how to act after it had caught 

a glimpse of the blue sky, tasted the beads of

cool raindrops and felt the warm touch and light

of a real sun.

And there was you, with your cute adorable smile

and comely angelic face. Your boot cut blue jeans

goes along your black and white silky dress,

complimenting your petite figure well and you're all that !

How the wind sweetly stroke your straight dark brunette hair

as it dangles and brushes over your eased shoulder. How

it undulates smoothly like wet spaghetti, bathe in canola oil,

with your every bouncy stride and sway of your sculptured waist.

Taking my breath away and you stole the sunshine and the

rain.

There I stood, out of place, in the midst of your academic

excellence and acclaims. Surrounded by your charming

acolytes which you always cling. Hovering around you like

vigilant bees ever casting a suspicious eye on any potential

intruder coming near their exclusive hive and precious queen.

And so I put up a face, wore my pretentious mask.

Kept my distance from their picking tongue and prying eyes

Not showing my vulnerable side. Resolved to the comfort

and safety of my own protective clandestine shell.

Cowering behind the shadows of my self imposing doubt 

in fear of not measuring up, shoved in the corner of your heart

Put aside like an outdated or misplaced furniture.

And you remain elusive like a rare beautiful exotic bird

not wanting to be tamed or caged. Refusing to leave your

cozy nest, to fly and venture out into the open, into my world

Afraid to risk losing everything that defines and separates you

Everything but the one that you truly love, truly care

and truly matter.

And there was you, enigmatic, abstract, a paradox.

Beauty and brain. Simple and daunting. Shared same

classroom yet incognito. Near but beyond my reach.  Spoke the

same language but muted. Known each other yet estranged

and the gulf between us ever so widen with each passing years

until what seemed wonderfully began abruptly ended and the

song came to an end, the curtains were drawn and the stage

vacated.

Nothing left but empty chairs, dusty desks, carved images of

hearts and names in trunk and branches of trees that never bloom

And all memories ebbed away as we both climbed down

the steps of our early deciduous years without applause,

without hurray, without holding hands. Not a word spoken nor

a kiss, not hug or embrace, even a casual hand shakes

And we both walk away in silence, without a glance,

without smile, without ever saying goodbye ...

by NeiL ArandA  04/16/2015

Author's Note

" Some birds aren't meant to be caged. Their feathers are just too colorful. And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice... "

" She's all that " - perfect and popular
" Closure " - a scar or a final step or phase in a grieving process or letting go.

Reviews

[gabrielle]

They say that most who excel in academics get secretly attracted to average guys (lol) and they would rather die than to admit it. You got me reminiscing those treasured high school days with this one, Neil. The phrase “Like wet spaghetti, bathe in canola oil” left a vivid image in mind because there’s something dramatic (at least to me) on how al dente spaghetti dances and bounces when tossed in oil.

Also, I love the style you used in this piece. It’s very personal-almost like a confession. Life is not always like a movie wherein a boy meets girl and they live happily ever after. But there are times that a boy meets girl, then parted ways and then suddenly the scriptwriters suffered extreme writer’s block (lol), which lead us to draw our own conclusion or ending. The last stanza is quite brilliant. It’s full of symbolism, of imagery and metaphor and subject to different conclusion depending on whether the reader is a lover of happy ending or romantic tragedy.

[NeiL ArandA]

Thank you for reading and commenting on this piece. I have noticed over the course of time that your reviews have evolved and have been very keen and sharp in your commentary" by leaps and bound ". Your thoughts here follows you well, same way as your well crafted and high quality penned poems and pieces. Thank Gabs for your time. It is well appreciated. :)

[Frank]

Gabrielle, I think we are attracted by means we don't fully understand, we are wonderfully and complexly made. We chose partners for life by a complex mechanism based on positive or perceived qualities. One thin I learned in life, a girl of a certain age want s a boy friend more than anything else, a boy wants a girl, this si the basic mix, after that we analyse for partning for life, despite all our imperfections somehow we blend. The marriage contract is more than romantic love, more than physical satisfaction, more than finacial standing, more than soial standing it is about kindness and strength and a myriad other qualities. Ech generation has to settle for less than the perfect ideal, if we don't the human race dies out, hence the dangers of same sex marriages, they are empty produce no fruit. You know all that, but behind most marriages is a string of rejected suitors, and many marriages fail because people have such high hopes of perfection, life isn't like that, there has to be a pragmatic element else no one would marry. Some women marry just for a child and then leave with child in hand, that too is unatural, no balance or protection , not a full protection of the child. And amongst all these considerations is the fact that when you meet the right person you bell rings, you turn into a servile willing slave, you walk on air, you see flowers for the very first time and you present an image of yourself that your mother would never recognise just to get that girl/boy and lay your head upon their sweet lap. :)

[gabrielle]

Hello, Frank. I see that you have a very conservative outlook and i respect that. "You turn into a servile willing slave"- That's very strong words that could probably send some women's group screaming at your door :) :) Thank you for sharing your thoughts on my comment.

[Frank]

Modes change, editors and writers try to accomdate fashion and what is the right way to think, the facts remains when in love we become slaves. It doesn't work otehrwise, I know these things :)

[gabrielle]

I submit that i speak in theories while you speak through experience. :). But as much as possible i do not want to be a slave of my emotions :) :) :)

[Frank]

We may not want to be but we are slaves, to Christ, if a Christian. To memories of passed loved ones, their voices echo in or mind and speak to us so much we cry. What parent can forget the love of a child or the death, they are haunted people all their lives, not really living, slaves to emotions. The jingoistic marketing nonsense is often so wrong, only whe they silly adverts touch the reality of man can they work.
I am a willing slave to my wife, I present the chauvinistic image, and she knows that, and she know I am her slave even though she mows the lawn and puts out the bins.

Nothing wrong in being a willing slave, pride in indepenecne is overrated. Families unite.

[NeiL ArandA]

I hate to butt in. I wonder if Frank is referring to the chemistry of attraction between opposite sexes or during puberty stage. There's certainly some distinct differences. Correct me if I'm wrong but during these early stages boys are drawn to a certain girl physically. Though boys may prefer to have some help and hint from the girl side for their open approval and public and private expression or display of their emotions to some degree. Culture and parental upbringing maybe a culprit or factor. So maybe Frank is referring to a certain degree of distinguishing qualification that a boy maybe looking for a type of girl ? If this is not met that boys will have to compensate for something less than ideal for the survival of species.

[NeiL ArandA]

On the contrary that we did happened to whoa and get the girl of our dream by some stroke of luck or divine fate that we will do everything we can to live up to their expectations. I think one sign that boys or men shows that base on Frank discourse is to be a slave. I prefer to call it servant. We became servants to our spouse, partner or better half in appreciation that they have chosen us to be their soul mate among the big fishes that are swimming in the ocean..

[gabrielle]

Dear married guys,
If you do want to be a slave to a girl, that's perfectly fine. A girl will probably be thrilled by it and perhaps will even take advantage of it (hahahaha!).
English is not my native language but in my own understanding a "slave" is someone who is at the beck and call of another, a person without a capacity to make a choice. A woman, conservative or liberal, would not want to be in the position of a slave (that is, in the context of my definition). Notwithstanding, if a woman decided to show her commitment to her husband by serving him, by compromising, by making sacrifice like giving up a career to take care of the family, I do not call that slavery because doing those things is the choice of a woman. but if a man would compel anyone to do things, that's what I call slavery and no woman, I believe, would be on that situation :) :) :)

[Frank]

Slave works like this as I mean it, I look at her and see she is besotted with me, I love her but I see that my love is not what it should be. It has a selfish element, but then I see she has surrendered all her faith and hope in me and then I fall. I fall as a slave to my emotions, I cannot now harm her in any way, I can give my life for her. That is what being a slave means.
It doe snot mean I will be a perfect husband it does not mean I won't be harsh at time, selfish, moody it means that there is a balances at work, always with self and always with consideration for her.

English language has many meaning for the same word, different usages, nuances. Poetic language often describes the perfect, it is a sentiment.

It has gone out of fashion now to serve, but wives serve, their children, their husband and the husband goes of to work. There is in my estimation a serving , I am a willing slave. :)

[gabrielle]

Point well taken Frank. The term "slave" just didn't sit well with me :) :). "A willing slave"--a slave by choice, i'll take that as a person who will do everything within his/her to honor the commitment s/he made. That's very nice. Very few man would admit that :) :)

[NeiL ArandA]

Both of you truly have an amazing mind. Gab by your inquisitive mind. You may have forced Frank to come up with a new definition of love under the context of a slave. I mean a willing slave is not only beautifully said but from my average mind a novelty in itself. I think if all men will take this attitude would have saved their failing marriage and honor their vows and commitments and have a strong and solid marriage that will stand the test of time. I see a biblical side on what is Frank is saying as well. I will share that in my next comment section.

[NeiL ArandA]

This discussion has changed the tide from a quirky boy and girl infatuation into a more serious matter and relationship issues. Both of you may get invited to Dr Phil TV talk show . :) The world views and Hollywood movies do paint a different picture of what is man and women role is in marriage. They are not on equal footing as far as physical but they are on equal footing as far as the way they were design. They are partner and helper. Each has a flaw on his/her own which what really marriage and relationship is designed for. To fill those gaps, flaws, weakness and imperfections by each others special characteristics and strengths. What lacks the other, the other person in a relationship makes up or fill in for the other, maintaining that balance. I like the way Frank coined the word " willing " and " balance " ...So marriage is like an equilibrium. It appears that through these threads of discussion I see that you both elevated and redefined the meaning of relationship and each partners role in marriage.

[Frank]

1Cor. 7:22 speaks of slaves that become free men. Though they be slaves when they become Christian they become to the Lord a precious person and are truly freed from the tyranny of sin and hatred that rules in this fallen world.

Pride in marriage will not work, each person in the marriage has duties or love and service, honour and respect. It has to be that way, for Adam when he slept was cleaved from the flnak and that flesh became Eve and that flesh will always want to be united with the man. So has God made us to be united in service and love. Slave in this sense is not a cruel word but it is a strong way of emphasiing a bond. To be sure when we are young we roam with our eyes and we fall short of this perfect standard, in time we begin to see God's plan for us all. The woman give sup so much in childbirth, her figure is ruined, she put on weight, she is chained to the home. The man too is not free to follow his own devices he must work, and he must guard and cherish his family.
There are men that desert their wife and children, leave them to the vicissitudes of the cruel world. Women too get tired and play around and leave. There is only misery in this, it is best to become a slave and work out at a marriage and in time the rewards manifest themselves so you will not consider any other way.

[NeiL ArandA]

I thought I have seen the base of the mountain with your explanation but just the tip of the iceberg. The most common excuse we often heard from failed marriage or relationships is not really about " irreconcilable differences " but rather the more subtle issue of " pride " and men not owning and sticking to the vows and commitments they made to their partner with a lame excuse or rationalization. So in more sense that its about braking that trust to " disobey and betray " the oath we made to our chosen partner and soulmate and to the soul witness of our marriage which is Christ. Once again I love the new word mentioned in this thread " bond " . So it went from slave to willing servant and then perhaps bond servant. If the sole purpose is to please and serve our partner and put our own need and interest before them. Wow what a marriage made in heaven even with challenges we face in this ever changing world. I applaud you for this follow up interjection.

[NeiL ArandA]

And to all married women or single parent. I applaud you all. You deserve a standing ovation. You have been delineated the great task of child bearing, birth and nurturing. I could not imagine the thought of God assigning that great responsibility to men. I haven't heard nor read any women protesting this in public, sued their spouse or filing their own grievance to the Creator. The pain that they have to go through and endure. Sacrificing their career, wants and figure just to fulfill that God given responsibility. Men has gotten it easy and sometimes treat their beloved partner like a worn out attire or fashion and replacing them with a new dress after it had lost its luster. The word slave isn't really bad or evil at all if its used to serve and protect others and make the person safe and secure.

[gabrielle]

Great thinkers think alike? Had i not separately read your poems, i would assume that you guys are one and of the same person.

To honor the marriage vow takes a lot of sacrifice but not everyone can truly sacrifice so much. During honeymoon stage, lovers would usually claim that they would love one another in sickness, in health, in poverty in wealth etc... but when financial crisis came those promises are abandoned. Too much pride likewise is a culprit. Mmmm..speaking of Adam, he pointed his finger to Eve when asked by the Almighty abt the fruit. Does this mean that its the nature of man to blame woman for his weakness? Hehehe. Just a thought. You might bombard me with bible verses to show your opposition, if there's any. Lol :)

And since you both submit that you are willing servants to your spouses, i am sure you realize that a bouquet of flowers will surely make their day this Mother's Day :) :) have a pleasant day/evening!

[NeiL ArandA]

You are so funny Gab. I beg to disagree with your hunches. Frank and I are totally different and distinct person. I don't think Gab I could even fabricate those words he wrote and explained. Our personal views and convictions on marriage vows and commitment maybe similar and identical. Perhaps we have the same stance that if someone walks away from their marriage vows and commitment other than the reason of infidelity and immorality is committing a grievous offense not only to his partner but solely to the One that instituted the rules and laws of marriage and witness to their vows. It's a working process and temptations and disappointments are part of the progress.

[NeiL ArandA]

Gab Frank may have a different and deeper take on Adam and Eve fall from the garden of Eden. I think the fruit they both ate is a test of their loyalty love and commitment to God. There was no issue of Adam not being satisfied with Eve. They have everything they need and provided for them. Could it be possible that Adam loved Eve so much to have not obliged to eat and taste the fruit after it was offered to him. He could have objected and stood his ground. They could have also asked God for forgiveness and honestly admit their mistakes instead they blame and point a finger on each other. It could have save the entire human race the curse of such sin and fall if they had been honest and open to God. It such a costly mistake to them and to the entire human race.

[gabrielle]

I see that your religion consents to divorce/annulment/declaration of nullity on two grounds: infidelity and immorality. May I ask for the biblical verse, if any? I could use it as future reference.
----
Is God skeptic? Why do you think He needs to test Adam and Eve’s loyalty?
“Could it be possible that Adam loved Eve so much to have not obliged to eat and taste the fruit after it was offered to him”--- We are talking of mere probability but this line inevitably reflect the danger of allowing ourselves to be a slave of our emotions. Love/affinity sometimes blur our better judgment in the same way that Adam, presumably, had forgotten what God had told to them in his effort to please Eve. Just because we love someone does not mean that we have to agree whatever s/he says or do.
I do not subscribe to the belief that I inherited the sins of Adam and Eve. I find it unfair and unjustified that I should be labeled as a sinner because of my predecessor’s fault. Surely, our Maker knows the right to due process :). But then again, the bible is full of metaphors which you and I could not accurately fathom.

[Frank]

God ordained the fall of Adam and Eve, He did not cause it in my view but made Adam with free will, to sin or to follow God's law. But here is the rub, the flesh makes enormous demands on us, to breath, to drink, to eat, to enjoy a women and a woman a man, so many demands social standing....look at Marlsows hierarchy of needs. And sometimes the demand is so great we indulge ourselves to our cost. Who hasn't eaten like a pig and paid the price the following day. Who hasn't drunk too much and regretted in vomit and gore. Who has not entertained the most corrupted thoughts and would be ashamed for them to be seen on a wall.
We don't know why God ordained the fall, but here we are. And He has provided a way out from the penalty of our sins. No other religion provides a remedy for sins past, present and future... it is so wonderful most religions reject it, even the Jews, who prefer to rely on the law of Moses. And the law of Moses , the clout of Moses, condemns mankind to death for sin. All sin ends in death. We will all die, but some of us will live forever.
The Christian message is to know the law and endeavour to live it. God does not say just try, God does not deal in halves, He says to live it. But then His Son says there is forgiveness in repentance. So the persons who give assent to the law and breka it are hypocrites, so the Jews tell us constantly, and so does the apostle. But to repent of our so=in in faith is sufficient to save us.
The world says there is no sin in debauchery, no sin in abortion, no sin in euthanasia, no sin in extra-marital sex... fornication, no sin in buggery.... anal sex, no sin in lying, no sin in falsehood, no sin in usery.... lending money and making the borrower a victim, he can never be able to pay back, unkindness to animals... God insists that the beast that crushes the grain is not mzzled that would be torture for the animal. Jesus sums it all up in two statements: Love God, Love your fellow man as yourselves.

If a man forsakes his marriage promise and goes with a woman, that man suffers, his wife too if wshe suspects or finds out, and that indelible mark will be on that man all his day. That is the price of his infidelity, it need not end his marriage, it need not end in hell, it works out in this new formed desire to honour his wife from that day on ...the same applies to every sin we commit we start a new day and try to go on as we intend. Some men stumble time after time after time, like a hopeless alcoholic. For the man who struggles with the carnal there is a sanctifying grace, we are a work in progress, there is hope. God writes of no man and calls all to repentance.
Without forgiveness no matter how reprehensible is the sin, without repentance there is no hope. The joy of having one partner all our days is that we grow in love and trust, it takes a lifetime. To watch a wedding of two young people I wonder if they know what they are getting into. I know they don't know, I did not know either. the depth and wonders of His plan for us are revealed slowly even as the bible is a gradual revelation of God nature and His being.
Most of the old patriarchs in the bible were wonderful men, and msot of them gave assent to following God knowing He is a loving God, but many of them sinned ina most horrible way. Noah got drunk on wine and exposed himself to his sons, some say his son buggered the old man. Lot slept with his daughters when drunk. Abraham lied about his wife, saying she was his sister and almost lost her to Pharaoh. David had many wives, so did his son Solomon. The thing is, none of then lost their salvation because of sin, it was covered.
I know a lot of what I say may be lost to you, but here it is , this is the message. We do not ignore the commandments to love, it means basically to do no harm to another human being, and that law protects us from retaliation if we keep it. So the law is good. But we are prone to the demands of the flesh, and many will weaken. Ever see a child eyeing a chocolate cake? we are the same, when we see the object of our desire before us don't we look a little too long?

The difference between the Christian and the rest is this, we acknowledge that we are tempted and fall short of God's glory, the man who rejects God hates God 's commandment to love and in doing so bring damnation on himself.

I will try and assumer your question in your first couple of lines Gab. This allowing of nullifying was on one cause: filthiness, It was given by Moses in his ordinances, it was in tended for the man who was holy and could not forgive because he himself felt tainted by her act. Maybe such a woman had become diseased, he could not have children with a deceased woman, it would rot the faces of his babies, that would be impossible if he had no healthy children already. It wa s a away out for him from this terrible situation. That is just one reason. But in the perfect case there would be a separation for a time with the view to reconciliation, that would imply forgiveness and a fresh start. If a man marries and his wife became a prostitute, we have such an example in the minor prophets, he who has been sinned against by such a woman can take her back, not that full relationships would be immediate but gradual after a time. If God's Son could live among filthy men and still love them, we are asked to endure such things and in doing so gain a soul.

See, true love is a hard thing, it does not glitter it rather endures all things. Young girls ready to marry are not told about morning sickness, the stench of diapers stinking of excreta, vomiting babies that cry constantly and ad very often sick ... this is the reality of family life. But they come out of it in great joy as their children bond to them and become interactive rational loving adults. Hence the saying, no pain no gain.

[NeiL ArandA]

Excellent question and good observation Gab . Frank's take and explanations is stellar. I can't give my take in one explanation since your question demands three or four different explanations . I would like to break it down and answer them separately. The first you asked if our chosen religious affiliation condones divorce or advocates matrimonial annulment . Second question raised if God is skeptic and why He has to test people
Third question raised if theres a biblical teachings that supports this marriage annulment on the basis of immorality and infidelity . Fourth question raised . Is it fair to be accused of wrong doings and reap the consequences of peoples sins by inheritance . Fifth question raised . Us Gods will hidden and mysterious that His inspired Book is full of metaphors that is too hard for human to follow and understand . I have rephrase and simplify some of your deep questions .I will try to answer them individually and accordingly .

[NeiL ArandA]

Frank thank you for your input and willful participation in this discussion and discourse . I'm also glad that it hasn't turn into heated debate . But rather each party is willing to know and listen and understand from another poets point of view . I learned so much from both of you . Gab does raise some beautiful and clever questions .

[Frank]

The gospel sometimes has to be spoon fed, God either opens their hearts or else He leaves them to their own devices and to their own destruction. Some times the seed blossoms into a plant and shows fruit, all in His time. Gab is astute.

[NeiL ArandA]

The First question you raised Gab is a tender and thorny issue that still the subject of endless debate among or between evangelicals and secular society. No Gab, our personal and spiritual convictions and religious affiliation doesn't support divorce on the basis that God hates divorce. What God has joined together let no man separates. Joined here means approves and God is the witness to this sacred covenant between two consenting individuals who committed themselves into a loving and trusting relationship. God also instituted marriage on the basis of procreation and not cohabitation. Two individual will be responsible parents, providers and nurturers should they have offspring and children of their own. God when He made His covenants with the nation of Israel and made an everlasting promise to Abraham. He upholds those promise. I believe He expects also from His people to be the same way since we are created in His image, to mirror Him, to upholds and honor their marriage vows. Unfortunately this doesn't happen always because of man's fallen nature and his great propensity to sin. In Moses time divorce was instituted or allowed or permitted. This is because of the hardiness of the heart of the Jews. It was permitted for the protection of the women. So the women can remarry and prevent the ex or former husband of accusing her of indecency, infidelity or immorality should he become jealous and vengeful of her which is ground for stoning and death. When Mary became pregnant with our Lord-Jesus and Joseph found out that she was with a baby before they became intimate. Joseph wanted to divorce her but the angel of God appeared to him in a dream to assure and instruct him to take Mary as his lawful wife since this is God's plan and that Mary had not committed immorality . Joseph is a righteous and godly person and he cares and loves Mary. He wanted initially to secretly divorce her not to disown, reject, ridicule but to protect her integrity and reputation. I'm so glad that Joseph humbly responded and submitted to the will of God. God hates divorce because it hurts His heart more than anything and we should as well.

[NeiL ArandA]

Divorce however does pervades in our secular society. There are few reasons that allows a person to abandon his/her vows on some exceptional clause such as immorality, infidelity, domestic or child abuse . If a Christian happens to find him/her self in this situation. It is encourage first to try to resolve the problem through counselling and see if the sinning partner will acknowledge, repent and renounce the sinful affair and allows restoration of their marriage especially if the offending spouse is a non believer in hope that the offended party will win his/her spouse to the Lord. Divorce is the last resort if all initial options failed and all efforts have been exhausted and the sin continues and persist and no remorse or change on the unfaithful spouse. The betrayed party can walk away from this marriage and won't be accountable to God in the judgment days. We may not find a biblical verse that supports spousal or child abuse or domestic violence as in the case of an abusive or sadistic husband. To some extreme some may still advocates to stay with the relationship in hopes to win the ungodly spouse to the Lord. If the relationship is unchanged and all efforts have been exhausted then its ok to walk out of that marriage covenant on the basis that the victim is now employing and utilizing her God given common sense and discernment to protect herself and safeguard her children.
However most of the divorce that takes place in our modern culture and society nowadays are mostly " unbiblical reasons " such as incompatibility, irreconcilable differences, career, in-laws issues, wanted to have a younger and submissive wife, doesn't know how to cook, not fashion conscious or presentable in parties or shopping a lot or controlling or nags a lot etc ...

Some marriage ceremonies nowadays incorporate the tradition of combining and intertwining 3 threads to create a stronger thread symbolizing their unity and union with one another and the third thread symbolizing and acknowledging Christ as witness and partner to their sacred covenant. A marriage has a better chances of surviving the onslaught and storms of life when Christ is involve . Its like a triangle with both spouse at the opposite end of the baseline and Christ on top forming the shape of the triangle or pyramid. As each of them work their way up on top to know and love and serve and get closer to Christ. As they move upward in symphony they too also at the same time moving closer, their love, bond, affection and trust for one another grow deeper and stronger. And Christ is obligated and committed to faithfully preserve and bless that marriage and their children and next generation...

[NeiL ArandA]

Dear Gab I think I have unintentionally combined the First and Third Question in one single take or explanation. Sorry for that oversight. My answer to your Second, Fourth and Fifth question will follow suit. Your Fourth Question is very tricky.

[gabrielle]

First off, i do appreciate you taking time and effort in sharing your convictions and beliefs. Let us be reminded, however, that in the long run, what we say or what we write matters not if our actions and conducts are showing otherwise. :) :)

This is a long thread..forgive me, i'll just pick some lines that interest me...

"If a man marries and his wife became a prostitute, we have such an example in the minor prophets, he who has been sinned against by such a woman can take her back, not that full relationships would be immediate but gradual after a time." --- Such capacity to forgive catapults the level of human being with the divine. Bless you Frank for having such forgiving soul, i believe, if i would be (i hope not) on such situation, i would walk away. :)

"most of the divorce that takes place in our modern culture and society nowadays are mostly " unbiblical reasons " such as incompatibility, irreconcilable differences, career, in-laws issues,"-- the church's stand remains strict with respect to annulment/declaration of nullity of the holy matrimony. the grounds you enumerated are the basis of terminating a civil marriage, which is easier to obtain. i got a relative who had his civil marriage declared null and void and married again (civil) , the wife wanted their marriage to be bless by God but the Church would not agree because of the previous catholic church wedding. Their solution: they got married in Aglipayan church. Should we condemn such circumvention of the law? :)

[Frank]

There is one eternal truth, God allows men an element of freedom, to do what is right or to follow their own selfish interests. In the end we will all come to judgement. All church follow God as best they can writing rules to belong to that church, many times people don't agree and got to another church to get what they want.

But separation and divorce is never encourage d by any church, where there are irreconcilable differences the church will allow it.

We all sin, we all fall short, God understands that and makes allowance for his sheep, his little lambs. If we act like tyrants and brutes can we expect to get away with it without repentance on judgement day, that is the question. If you cannot forgive, if after months of prayer and deliberation your stomach revolts at the person you are married to, then you must decide.

You have but one master and I cannot rule you, you must go to HIm. But the bible is clear, it is better to stay together.

God will never forsake us, we should not forsake each other because of difficulties.

[NeiL ArandA]

You said it well Frank that there's a lot of Church hopping and Church shopping nowadays. Since there so many out there it sort of have become like a buffet restaurant and if people didn't like and agree with a certain teaching and the church doesn't bend their rules, offer more options and choices, flexibility and cater to their congregations present wants and wishes then off they go. Thank you Frank for your staunch input and explanation.

[NeiL ArandA]

Gab as per your request here is the verse that you asked for your future reference : *Jesus* teaching about Divorce- He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." Matthew19:9 Immorality here is translated " unfaithful" . There are several more verses out there. But this one is direct to the point.

[NeiL ArandA]

Gab If I'm going to use the words and teaching of our Lord and then shine the light into the situation that you just stated and shared with us. It will be obvious even though the husband went and shop or canvass around whose church would make their present relationship legal and valid and somehow gets God's stamp of approval and bless their marriage..? There's a quote in the Book of Life that states this way: " There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death " Proverbs14:12 Hope this helps Gab

[gabrielle]

I was trying to illustrate the absurdity of things. :) . Whether such marriage got the approval of the Highest Being is not for us to tell. The bible is subject to different interpretations and i believe that this is the reason why there are so many religions out there. Why not simplify things? What is the greatest commandment? To love. Those verses about death, abt punishment in my opinion may have been taken out of context as the same are in contrary to the greatest commandment. (Disclaimer: i am not a bible scholar, this is how i view things)

[NeiL ArandA]

That is true Gab. When our Lord started his ministry and select His followers. He only preached and gave one truth. If He had changed His teachings and dispositions everyday He minister and gave sermons then we can trace from the Lord. But I believe that's why we have so many different denominations with their own doctrinal beliefs and teachings didn't really come and originated from the teaching of our Lord.

[NeiL ArandA]

There was a commentary I heard not long ago about how an intellectual person would oneday say to God when that person stand before Him . And here is what he told God. " You did not gave me enough evidence to believe that You're real and that You exist . " I assumed base on his excuse and rationalization that this person was an athiest ...

[Frank]

Atheists are liars and will go to hell for unbeliever, evry man born knwos there is a creator and so there is no excuse, they dam themselves.
Romans 11: 19 - 20 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.…

[gabrielle]

Neil, intellectual or arrogant?
Frank, you mentioned in the previous discussion that God gave us choices and freedom. These thoughts came to me: If a person decided to believe that there is no God, why do we condemn? If it was the Maker who laid before us those choices (choice between good and evil, between believing in God or not beilieving in Him etc ), surely He won't take grudge against those who did not chose to follow His will. If God wants us to follow ONLY His will, He, in the first place, should have not given us options to choose from. :) :) :)
The Bible is considered as work of the Holy Spirit in many religions, i believe that one way of showing respect to such sacredness is to use the same to enlighten the hearts and minds of others but never to use it as a justification to condemn. :)

[Frank]

Good question, and it comes from a mind that does not give glory to its maker. Man has been given the right to choose, that does not mean God is pleased if a man rejects the truth. The truth is that all men know there is a creator, and if they reject their maker they choose a lie. They will pay for that lie when they stand in the judgement.
I deserve hell for the sin in my life, however I have a saviour, and I will be judged in HIm.

I don't condemn you, God gives you life to choose, even at the last breath man can call on God and that dying man will get the same wages as a man who works all his life for His maker. Same wages even on his s dying bed.

[NeiL ArandA]

Good point Gab. Just to piggy back on what Frank said. When a follower of Christ shares the hope he found and have in Christ. He is doing it out of love and compassion for the lost and out of his new found relationship, commitment and deep gratitude to his savior and what God has done in his life. When he came to that saving knowledge. Christ purpose, priority and passion became his as well. Along with that a burden in his heart to pass His message of love and forgiveness to others. Consequently comes also the risk of offending someone since the sharing of the words of Christ comes with the conviction of that person's sin in his/her life. The 3rd person of the Trinity brings this conviction. Hence it's His role and ministry. The Father draws people to His Son. The Son converts and gives the person eternal life. The sharer/messenger's role is to convey the message of slavation. It is not his job to do the convicting convincing and converting. He is just an active and willing participant from which God carry out His redemptive work through His people. It's not dependent on a person's special ability or eloquent of words, articulate of speech or reasoning but through the power of the gospel of Christ. ( That is why Christ chose unschooled men and ordinary fishermen) . Often times when this happens it is viewed as an attack on the person's personal belief and religious affiliation, or taken under the context of condemnation, being judgmental or intolerant of others beliefs. God is a gentlemen. He doesn't forced His way and will on others. It is not shove down a person's throat. He is not a tyrant. But God often times "works around" the "freewill" of men. Around means lovingly, patiently, tenderly, mercifully compassionately and passionately. That's how special you and I and everyone to Him are.

[NeiL ArandA]

Why would not God leave us alone if a person refuse or reject Him. He does and He will. There's a point when He will one day say " enough is enough ". But sometimes He honors the faith and persistence of a saved person when he has burdens for his loveones, family, friends and even foes. Suppose you have found the cure to cancer and this ravaging and deadly disease happened to infect and affect your loveones . ( Spouse, Children, Relatives, Friends ) Will you be compelled to share the cure and answer to help and save them ? Would you easily give up on them if they brush you away, ignore or label you as crazy, conceited, a quack, a hypocrite or unrespectable person ?. No, you risk everything for them until they will see and understand the magnitude and eternal consequence of their choice and decision. You won't give up easily and let the Enemy/Satan have them. You fight with prayer and petition and plead with them to come and be reconciled with Christ. We should not take lightly the second death which is an eternal separation from God. Christ weep for the nation of Israel. That's how much He value His creation and their souls. In poetic way He said this: " “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings” And John* 3:18 says " Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." The Bible is Jesus story and His redemptive work to mankind after the fall of Adam and Eve.

[gabrielle]

Next time, i shall keep in mind a rule in Conversation Etiquette 101: As much as possible, avoid talking about religion or politics. ;) ;). I do, however, appreciate you both for sharing your perspectives. And with your kind indulgence, allow me to share with you a lengthy message given by Pope Francis, which I am trying to reflect on:

"The light of love proper to faith can illumine the questions of our own time concerning truth. Truth nowadays is often reduced to the subjective authenticity of the individual, valid only to the life of the individual. A common truth intimidates us, for we identify it with the intransigent demands of totalitarian systems. But if truth is a truth of love, if it is a truth disclosed in a personal encounter with the Other and with others, then it can be set free from its enclosure in individuals and become part of the common good. As a truth of love, it is not one that can be imposed by force; it is not a truth that stifles the individual. Since it is born of love, it can penetrate to the heart, to the personal core of each man and woman. Clearly, then, faith is not intransigent but grows in respectful coexistence with others. One who believes may not be presumptuous; on the contrary, truth leads to humility, because believers know that, rather than ourselves possessing truth, it is truth that embraces and possesses us."

Again, thank you very much for your patience and wonderful insights in answering my queries. :)

[Frank]

Why go to a Pope, a self aggrandising title, why not go to the source of all knowledge and truth. Why not go to the Master Himself, I am the only way to the Father, no man cometh unless they come through me! Paraphrased words of Jesus. Jesus is the only way, He is the truth and the light.
Beware of men, trust in His Word.

[gabrielle]

I'd like to clarify the misconception you raised above, Frank. The Pope is not a Savior. He never claim that he is the truth and the light nor did he arrogate upon himself that He is the Savior.
As to the quote I mentioned, it was only for the purpose of providing some insights and perspectives in the same way that we gain ideas when we read writings of the Dalai Lama, Martin Luther and other writers or from your opinion or Neil's opinion on a given subject matter. To accept or not the perspective/idea depends solely on the individual reading it. :) Thank you.

[NeiL ArandA]

Thank you Gab and Frank for your participation in this discussion. In lieu of Gab's shared quotes. There a quote I do want to share as well " preach the word and if necessary use words " St Franciss of Assisi. There are people drawn and comes to the Light by just simply observing a person's life. Before I was sold out to be a follower. I observed someone's life and I was drawn immediately and I sought the source of his faith. That person walked the talk which shows the evidence of his salvation and faith in Christ is genuine. Salvation is still and always a gift and grace from God and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary. What a pleasure and a rare opportunity indeed to have shared such thoughts, perspective and discussion with such bright and open minded poets. Thank you all unless Frank wanted to add some more.

[gabrielle]

"Inconsistency on the part of pastors and the faithful between what they say and what they do, between word and manner of life, is undermining the Church's credibility". :) :) :)

[Frank]

Well, quoting the Pope is a red flag to all protestants, the RCC is more and more divesting itself of all its filthy superstition and gradually conforming to the Biblical view and even using Protestant hymns, reading the Bible, using Bibles in the vernacular, giving up adoration of the dead, and even purgatory doctrine is losing favour. They enslaved Europe for a millennium or more with the harsh treatment and cannot say they represent Christ because of their past. The Pope claims to be God's representative on earth, he wears three crowns, he is carried around on a throne, they RCC excommunicated the whole Greek church for a thousand years, now they admit they are or were wrong and have kissed to make up, they forbade the paying together of boys in the scouts, we were not good enough to pray with them, all that has changed put I think it shows how far wrong they were and are. They still sacrifice Christ when he died once and for all. They call their priests Father when the Bible says call no man father. The forbid their priests the right to marry and enjoy family life causing untold misery... the list goes on.

In South American and Italy it is even worse, the veneration of saints, the praying to saints... all superstitious activity, the crossing of themselves the vain invention of men, the fables of men... Santa Claus.
True religion is to worship God through Christ alone, we have direct access to our one high priest we need no stinking priests who are full of sin themselves to make us clean. We are made whole through the suffering on the cross. We are seen by God holy people, He sees our sin no more, He has removed our sin as far as the east is from the west. Why would we go to a man for peace? When we have Christ.

All men stink of sin, not just priests, we all fall short of the glory of God, for our ways are not His ways, our thoughts not His thoughts.

If anyone asked me is there salvation in the RCC I would beg them to cut off their right arm than ever consider going down that road of legalism and superstition to find salvation and peace with God. The RCC is a cult, a huge bachus cult, it is a crumbling edifice and is full of dead men's bones.

I would rather someone become a Buddhist than a RC. At least they don't teach a false view of Jesus, they don't even claim to know God. But most of all I would encourager people to seek God through prayer and reading His word.

[NeiL ArandA]

I just noticed a reoccurring theme Gab. The words that start with the letter " C ". The Father draws people to "come" to Christ. ( No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. John-6:44) A " Christian " conveys and shares the message and gospel of Christ to the lost ( And you will be my witnesses, telling people about Me everywhere--in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." Acts1:8 ) The Holy Spirit "convicts" a person's sins, reveal their deeds and need for Christ. ( When He comes, He will convict the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment " John16:8 ). He also convince the unbeliever and comforts the saints. The Son " converts " a lost person who recognize his sin, situation, and need for a savior ( " But to all who believed Him and accepted Him, He gave the right to become children of God." John1:12) The "conveyor" or messenger will may it be a pastor or flock will always be "criticize" and its "credibility" put on the line so the Enemy could minimize their full potential, impact and influence to the world. ( Pharisees and Sadducees did the same thing to find fault and accuse Jesus of wrong doing ) God is still willing to use a repentant sinner saved by His grace inspite of his many flaws and inconsistencies in his life. A Christian has a lot to be concern with. He has three serious enemy ( his own flesh, the ungodly and worldly influence and Satan ) Yet his hope and victory in this passing life comes from the One that holds his faith ( " looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith " Hebrew12:2 ) So the " CALL " has been issued. May we heed His voice as He knocks at the door and corner of our heart. May we let Him in ...

[Frank]

Amen, my friend. The day is coming when we will be killed for this witness and people will delight in our destruction, that day is coming fast.

[gabrielle]

AMEN in so far as to the quoted bible verses but nay to the rest of condescending and condemning interpretations/ conclusions made therein. :)

[NeiL ArandA]

Amen . I saw your 3 C there as well . Thats clever. I was trained to recognize pattern when I use to play chess . Thank you Gab for your take and wonderful thoughts likewise with you Frank . To wrap things up and bring conclusion to our conversation . Please allow me to quote a word from a christian philosopher Ravi Zacharias " If truth is not undergirded by love makes the possessor of that truth obnoxious and the truth repulsive " . May our Lord Jesus peace reign in our heart and lives . Thank you fellow writer poet and friend ...

[Melinda McQueen]

A great poem with deep emotion. Some things, some feelings we never forget. I enjoyed this very much.

[NeiL ArandA]

Thanks for your visit Melinda ...Glad you like this one :)

[Frank]

Jesus said He was there not to brink peace , but to bring the sword. This sword is the sword of truth. Say the truth softly if you like but speak it. Don't hide what the RCC has done through the ages, the many thousands tortured and killed, even reading the bible w s a capital offence. You know the persecutions in your own country of birth.

Pray for your family, speak to them, but tell them there is a hell and no amount of works can save them from their impending doom. Tell them Mary cannot help them, tell them that God alone deserves worship, tell them that images are a blasphemous device and steal the glory and honour due to our Saviour. Tell them men should not be denied the comfort of a wife and children in this hardened age. Tell them of the work done on the cross, once and for all time and for all men but is effectual only for His sheep. Tell them walking on their knees to church cannot move them one inch from hell. Tell them there are only two places after death, with the Lord in Heaven or in hell, separated from love and kindness , peace and joy. By faith we are saved and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God. So much to say, I hope you will be the cause of their conversion because it will cover a multitude of sin.

God bless you brother in your great work.

[NeiL ArandA]

Thank you brother Frank for such encouraging exhortation. Thank you for your passion for the Great Commission as well and it goes hand in hand with the Great Commandment ( loving God and our neighbors ) Thank you my friend and dear brother.

[Dhaye]

Hmnn...this sounds like your high school crush. They always say "first love never dies" which means the "memory" never dies. But actually, it was not love at all. It was just a crush or infatuation, or there's something in that person that you admire most.

"Not a word spoken nor
a kiss, not a hug or embrace, even a casual hand shakes
and we bade our last farewells without a glance, without a smile,
as we fade and walk away, in silence, without ever saying
goodbye ..."---when you say "bade our last farewell" you met and said goodbye to each other. Besides, you have already in the last line "as we fade and walk away, in silence, without ever saying
goodbye "

What if:
"No word spoken nor a kiss,
no hug or embrace, even a casual hand shake,
without a glance, without a smile,
we fade and walk away, in silence, without ever saying
goodbye ..."

BTW, why the title is "Falling For You" while the concept is parting without goodbye? lol

But in general, I like this piece. You have written this using a different style. Like what I was saying, you are getting better and better, Neil. Kudos!

[NeiL ArandA]

Dear Dhaye thank you for leaving your footprints here in my piece . I figure out you will see something . I do love and appreciate that . You are analyzing and paying attention . I wasn't quite please or satisfied with the ending. I would weigh your suggestions . You noticed the title as well . I'm not really sold out with that either . What do you suggest ? There are so many stories involve in the construction of this piece . And again you are right I did used a different style . This piece has far more meaning and history than what I just laid out here . Thanks Dhaye for grazing my piece with your thoughtful words ...

[NeiL ArandA]

Dhaye I pondered your suggestion over and over again and it does makes sense. I have contradicted myself there with my last closing line. No wonder I'm iffy about it . Something is not quite right . Thanks for bringing that to my attention . I'll make that adjustment tonight . Appreciate your help and input .

[NeiL ArandA]

Dhaye I trimmed down some of the lines on the last stanza. I think it look and sounds much better than it used to be. I have to stay with the word " Not " instead of " No " ...The flow is much better to read. I cut few lines and its really better :) Thanks once again ...

[NeiL ArandA]

I think I found the right word for the title Dhaye ...:) Thanks for your challenge.

[NeiL ArandA]

I saw an improvement on the last stanza Dhaye. I think I have ironed out all the kinks. I'm glad you copied and posted the original lines. It's something I could always look back into and see and reflect how this piece had evolve so much. Thank you my friend you help me find the missing pieces in my last line. :)

[Frank]

Censorship in a conversation like this is so sad. write a poem about aborting a foetus and they will let that go on without comment. Speak about the evil of abortion and the post will be deleted.

[NeiL ArandA]

Dear Frank I reflected back from our previous discussions. I saw what Gab is trying to tell us. I was born raised and grew up as an RC. Most of my family and friends and some or many here in this poetry site . They are good friendly and caring people. I know many people regardless of their religious background and affiliation do conducts themeselves more godly and better than us who sometimes profess to know Christ . What I'm saying Frank is that in God's garden there are many roles . Each worker has an assigned task. Some are sower who plant the seeds. Some are tilter who cultivate the soil. And some waters the ground. And some are nurturers who fertilize the ground. But its never our place to weed out His garden for we cannot tell from wheat to tares. Though there are many competing grass . I trust that you will see through this analogy .

[Frank]

OK, its difficult for ex-RC's as their family are still bound in that world organisation. I don't hate catholic people per se, I have many friends that I grew up with in a Welsh-Irish community. But as a Christian I have to say what is true about that organisation. I know it makes me look like a hate monger, but if you read the history of the reformation you will be struck at the tolerance of the protestants and the viciousness of their opponents.

I appreciate that you do not wish to close the door on your relatives, I respect that you still are ready to witness to them, I have said my piece and now you know where I stand. I cannot in all honesty take one word back that I said about that religion.

[NeiL ArandA]

Thank you brother Frank that you understand. There are things that happened in our world that are considered a Dark History. It is part of our past. That empire is still around and influential. Yet our new or current generation knew nothing of or about those things committed and perpetrated by such leaders of such religion in another era. Our country were colonized by Spaniards for over 300 years and their customs and religion are deeply rooted and engraved in our heart, culture and traditions. There are many thing I did and have done out of ignorance. I am well aware of the struggle and history of the Protestant movement in and during the middle ages. And we need to learn from that past so it won't be repeated again in the future. But there will always be a tyrant who would rise to power and will control and enslave people all in the name of religion and God. You know what I'm talking about This is a proven fact and a prophesy. I can empathize with your pain. Let us also show our compassion and sympathy to those who knew nothing about those atrocities committed all or simply because they were or have been associated with that group or name. I was once an innocent bystanders. I don't know anything about religions. All I want to know back then was for me to know how will I get to heaven. I do understand Frank that once its out from our mouth we can't take it back. Thank you for your honesty which I sense you may have some regrets if I'm not mistaken. You may have offended someone or somebody. But for me you are forgiven. We are still friends and its like nothing happen. I'm giving you a clean slate of paper. My conversation with you and Gabrielle sparks a piece. Thank you my fellow brother and friend. You have a restful and bless day.

[Frank]

The thing is dear brother in the Lord, you make excuses that they did not know and say they were in a system and trusted vain men and that is true. But if I don't tell them openly how will they know. My hatred is that thing that is evil. MY hatred is for the organisation that perpetuates a life style and a religion far from what Jesu our Lord and Saviour taught. He taught a pure undefiled religion, the one true religion which is harmony and peace. And if it were not for men like the early reformers Spain would still rule the world, with its dark torture of the innocents, false religion, adoration of dead siants, veneration of mere men. We need to speak out as Jesus did to the pharisees and as we do so remember we too are made of clay, we are not perfect.
The only thing I regret si that I may have made my brother think I am a crazy.

We have to risk censure from other Christians and the world whenever we witness our dear Lord Jesus. He never wore three crowns, nevr dressed in expensive garments, took no high offices from men all mere trinkets to the Son of Glory. He came down to set us free from the rules of men, from legalism that is dead works, He taught pure unadulterated love for our fellow man, love isn't soft all the time, there is a time to speak and a time to be silent. now I will be silent.

[NeiL ArandA]

Dear Brother Frank .. I pretty much agree in most of what you said and written here. We have almost similar world view ( how we see our Creator, ourselves and our fellow men ). I think what differs us is our personal style or approach which I find it unique and special. Your gift is different than mine. Our difference is application and method. I won't by any means label you. That derogatory word doesn't fit a person of your experience and caliber. Your eloquence and word usage shows how advance your theology, understanding and experience than mine. I'm not making excuses for others as well. Here is why ..
If you would let me I would like to point out that approach. Apostle Paul said these “For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.” 1Corinthians9:22

[NeiL ArandA]

Frank look at the humbling approach of Paul’s statement. This is not a compromise nor does it say he would be an addict or alcoholics in order to reach them. Since we know that Paul has many critics and enemies. This is also a plea for the condescending to bear the infirmities of the weak or new in faith.
Paul was highly educated. A top gun as far as religious training and qualifications. Yet he is willing to stoop down for anyone so as to win and reach them. Paul is simply saying that he would use a prospective convert’s own beliefs and ways to show him the truth. So to a religious Jew he would use the law to speak to them, to a gentile he would use his conscience and culture and own understanding. Jesus was very effective in capturing His listener’s attention by using parables that His audience can relate to or with.
I was drawn to this new faith and relationship with Christ because of His love for me and what He did on the Cross. And also by observing the life of another person. I saw the connections and I was sold out. Then God opened my eyes and gave me understanding. A person has to come to the saving knowledge of Christ first. Then the Holy Spirit will give and supply all the understanding he needs as to why this and that is wrong and evil. The approach and method is important. It’s like standing at the fence of our neighbor’s yard and shaking our fist and shouting at them that if they don’t repent and come to Christ they would burn in hell . I find it effective to establish a good relationship or friendship with them and get to know them better and help them anyway you can and when the opportunity comes. Tell them what Jesus has done in our life and how wonderful it is to have a close friend like Him.

[jacob erin-cilberto]

close but out of reach all at once...

i had a crush in grade school..but felt unworthy to let her know...i loved her from a distance...and some years back she passed from cancer...just before a grade school reunion where i finally planned to tell her...

no hug, no embrace, just the imagination of a kiss.

i really like this but yes, needs work on tenses..you change them randomly throughout...be consistent.

love the theme though.
j.

[NeiL ArandA]

Thank you so much Jacob. You have been so kind all the time. I would follow your advice

[Frank]

He's tense on tenses.
If only we knew then what we know about women now. so sad unrequited love.

Girls wer emade to love an dkiss
and who am I to disagree with this
I'm a man
I'm a man and kiss them when I can

[NeiL ArandA]

Thanks for adding your input brother Frank. You are right here. Hey where have you been lately my friend ?

[Frank]

I withdrew to my shell, we hibernate in winter :)