I'm just gonna rant for a second, don't mind me

Can we not do better?

Have we become the problem?

It’s crazy to ask that question considering that many people on this site are full of encouragement and genuine desire to help each other get better.

This site is not what it once was. The community has shrunk and it’s now unsupervised (or sure feels like it). Spam accounts frequently take over the new writing page, harassers run rampant, and the groups and contests are practically non existent. And still, there are those of us who stick around. Still there are those who don’t give up on this site and try to keep up at least a semblance of the community it once was. 

But we have a bigger problem. There is one particular reviewer who under the guise of being “helpful” and “educational” and “an expert”, regularly rips apart new or less popular writers.

This person regularly states opinions (and they are opinions although he calls them facts) such as “no one woke up this morning and cared about what you felt” and “this is not the correct way to write poetry/fiction”. I’m open to anyone’s opinions on my work, but I’m also not brand new and have enough other people review my stuff that it doesn’t matter to me. But imagine, you’re a new writer (either to this site or overall) and you put up something that you’re proud of, and it gets one review that tells you “you suck”. And that’s it. 

Because what he’s doing is intentional. There’s a reason he’s not reviewing the “popular writing” with his expert opinions. 

This site might not be what it was, but it is guaranteed to never even get close to that again if new people have to run a gauntlet to even get in.

Reviews

[Ookpik]

So it goes Green, it's a strange website with a long list of flaws.

I agree with John below, and read your response. The 'review for a review' phenomena is primarily why I have reviews disabled - I've seen that those who review constantly, especially with praise, have a tendency to be reviewed in turn and usually learn fairly quickly that it's a fast way to make the home page.

My problem with that, is that this attention can sometimes go to their heads and they can get testy with those that threaten their sense of status.

I think Jay was once one of these types, though I may be wrong there.

I've seen also, that there are those who've learned that they can create as many accounts as they want - they can inflate their primary account with reviews they write themselves and, again, get featured on the front page faster.

When I asked myself why they'd go to these lengths, or why they'd spend so much time ambushing new or seemingly unequipped authors, I concluded that it had to do with status, or at least the perception of it.

Anyways, the block button is always there, and my advice is to not let this site occupy your head rent free. Focus on the positives that it brings you, and hopefully they ought to become more pronounced.

Best of luck,

-Ook

[Green]

Yeah, I know you're probably right. Honestly he doesn't usually bother me that much. People only have the power over you that you give them and it's not worth it to give it to people who chose to act like that. But I also inherited what my mom calls "an enlarged sense of justice" from my dad and sometimes, that really gets me going.
I feel like there is a bit of responsibility on some of us (myself included) contributing to this phenomena. Yes, what he's doing is wrong but he sticks out for more than just the fact that he's a jerk. He's also one of the only people who provides anything other than an echo chamber of "yas queen, this is amazing". I think the positivity is great, but is there really never anything we could point out to help someone improve. Like I said, I struggle with this too so I'm not over here trying to point fingers. It's hard to criticize something personal especially when it might just not be your thing, but I've been personally trying to do better recently. At the very least, I hope my reviews provide a little more commentary than just mindless praise with the expectation of more in return.

[Ookpik]

You've got it, there's only the power you give to your antagonizers and in that we have some armor. Nothing wrong with a sense of justice either, it makes me smile to hear and I think there's some good that comes from conversations like these.

I agree too, positivity is excellent but when it becomes a social tool I find myself heading for the hills. I'm hardly perfect myself, but I agree that constructive comments and comprehensive commentary carry more meaning than group enabling or constant validation.

It reminds me a bit of the suburbs when I see it - cliquey and exclusive - but the other side of it is the wild west: quick wits, quick draws and everybody seems to be carrying.

Anyways, a weird place, but I've seen writers improve here and I'm certain it has enough good qualities to be worth putting up with the bad ones.

[Davidgeo]

Ookpik is wise.

[Ken Simm.]

I find anyone who says directly this is how you should do your art rather than says nicely can I suggest is a tosser and should be ignored and or blocked. A case of who died and made you the arbiter of all good taste? I totally agree that people should be encouraged not degraded for some ignorant and usually deluded sense of self importance. These are weak people who feel they must bully others just starting perhaps and a little unsure to start with.

[red93]

Interesting thoughts Green. But Writers Cafe is definitely moderated. I had cause to complain last year and it was dealt with. But I think the Moderators like their invisibility cloaks.

[Green]

Then I would love to have your in with them because I have reported several rather serious issues lately and absolutely nothing has happened.

[red93]

Very kind of you to say Green but you probably know more about this Site than I do - I am in the UK if you weren't aware.

[John Sullivan]

I dunno, friend, I've made a post about it all too. I know of the situation you speak, but goodness, is everywhere these days. I really like this community at its best, so it's a shame to see. It'll get better I think.

[Sami Khalil]

I agree wholeheartedly. I know or have an idea about that person, persons.
We all have different approaches, ways to deal with people, situations like that.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us.

[Davidgeo]

Jay has an inferiority complex. Ignore him. His behavior here is just masking the fact he hasn't figured out how to cope with whatever makes him feel insecure in the real world.

Feel bad for those people... after you block them. Then forget they ever existed.

[Ballpark Frank]

I completely agree. This is very insightful. This site isn't even close to the community it once was. I used to have friends here.
Ive run across JayG and he was pretty direct and it made me feel bad, but I needed to hear it I think. I had written a 3 part story and I thought it was creative and good. Jay ripped it apart. I eventually realized he was right. I deleted it.
Just a few thoughts.

[Green]

I absolutely believe he’s given good advice and provided meaningful feedback to people. I do not however think that just because he gets it right a few times excuses his other behavior. He is absolutely wrong to attack new people or less popular people. He is absolutely wrong to tell poetry authors that no one cares about how they feel. He is wrong to say that there is a right or a wrong way to write poetry. He has slightly more of a leg to stand on when it comes to fiction or screen plays or anything else. There are at least conventions there that should be followed but even then you don’t HAVE to do anything. Not to mention that some people just want to write and share their work. They don’t need a critical analysis of it.

[Ballpark Frank]

Very true. I think encouragement is huge. I haven't even written anything in over a month because I got discouraged. Jay made me feel bad enough to want to quit but others built me up more. I didn't realize he was so harsh. That sucks.

[Andra Davis]

They just want attention. Forget em. Keep writing if that's what interests you. They shut up.

[Green]

They certainly do just want attention but I’m not always sure ignoring them is a great solution especially in cases like this where they very much do not go away. In fact, even if you ask this man to go away he doesn’t. You very much have to block him if you really don’t want him around. And yes, that works great for anyone who knows that they should do that but it’s not like that comes stated anywhere. It’s also more than a little ridiculous that you have to ask the equivalent of a geriatric mean girl to leave you alone. I get that everyone doesn’t feel that he’s an issue they need to acknowledge, however.

[Zombified Spider]

Ya'll he sucks... (I'm also on anti-depressants now... he's part of the problem)

Like *ahem and cue the sarcasm* Sorry if I post what I feel because it is an outlet

F*****g idiots

This made me feel 100% less likely to kill myself (I'm semi-joking)

thanks

we love

[Green]

I don’t see why anyone should be bothered by what you say if they can’t be bothered by him

[Poetic Beauty]

So I have been on here for 14 plus years. I have seen many things. I’m not sure who you are speaking of…

There use to be someone on here that have pretty blunt and in your face reviews. I actually befriend said person cause I wanted help without sugar coating to help me get better at writing. We have now been friend over 14 years. Don’t worry he no longer haunts these pages and hasn’t for many years

I know many people can not take the harsh in your face judgement of their work. He’ll most people can’t and it is completely understandable. People should not be cruel and give unwarranted advice. They can try to offer positive feedback and suggestions that might help in their writing.

Not long ago I tried to give small suggestions without being harsh and even said it was what I used to help me. I got deleted and blocked. Shrugs

[Green]

The person to which I am referring has been around and is very much still around and haunting these people, but frankly I'm not surprised you don't know him. He targets new/unreviewed works. I have extensively researched him (because that's kinda weird) but off the top of my head, I can't remember ever seeing him drop a review on something that already has one.
And at first, especially if you get one of the slightly more toned down versions of his feedback, he might seem like a slightly grumpy but overall helpful person. It really takes having to see almost the exact copied and pasted advice over and over again to realize that he's not really interested in helping anyone, just in making them feel less than.
I understand the struggle, I really do. I have been blocked on this site for stupid reasons (such as not immediately reviewing someone else back) but I'd honestly rather be blocked by someone who can't handle it than drive someone away.

[Zombified Spider]

he's like f*****g 70... a fossilized piece of crap

[Poetic Beauty]

It is definitely not proper or productive to drive people away. Super unfortunate

[Davidgeo]

Yes, we shouldn't be driving or attempting to drive writers away. But honest feedback is one thing... some people on this site feel that it is their personal responsibility to force other writers into thinking and "expressing" themselves in their image... these people, in my opinion, are altruistic narcissists who are really just getting off on appearing superior. The exchange of knowledge is secondary or not relevant to them, they are showing off their intellectual "power" because it makes them feel good to feel "powerful". At heart, these people are insecure and really feel powerless underneath. It's all a show to hide something from themselves.

[Poetic Beauty]

Some people have a superiority complex and believe others are beneath the. It’s a terrible shame and sham. There is no need to bully and make people feel like the work is worthless for its truly not.

[Green]

Yeah, I'm sorry but this doesn't really have a place in my comments section

[Davidgeo]

I understand.

[Aluppi Jampur]

I agree with many of your statements
First, this site is not great for women. They get harassed and ad you say no one responds to calls for help secondly, this so called reviewer is doing more harm than good. Why make a public beratement. Be tactful and sensitive. Not everyone has same goals of being publish. Some want to say peace for healing.

[Green]

Exactly. It just makes me sad when I see him (or anyone else) go off on someone who has stated somewhere that their work is about a hard time or for healing or whatever it may be. Or just when it’s someone saying, hey my English isn’t always very good ignore any grammar mistakes and someone comes in and acts like it’s 5th period English.