Popularity before honesty.

Just thoughts

I know before the first word read I'll not understand,
yet still I persist, reading then reading again.
Still none the wiser my next port of call the reviews,
where there, hopefully, some light shed.
Twelve of the two hundred and eight who have visited
have seen, and understood enough in his words to comment.
Eleven of these have the same, or similar train of thought as the "pen"
all commenting, two gushingly, on the meaning,
his wonderful use of metaphors, and how relatable his piece.
The twelfth however is like a detective trying to solve the perfect crime, clueless,
but rather than asking the author as to the meaning,
or not commenting at all,
they too have trawled through the reviews,
but their reason for doing so is not to understand.
No, it is to cherry pick words, phrases,
these then cobbled together and posted as "their" review,
this ended with the obligatory love and hugs,
no doubt in the vain hope that the recipient will return the compliment.
Nothing more pleasing to an ill educated soul, I'd imagine,
than having an academic comment on their poorly written fayre,
especially when these comments contain no critique,
but instead only vague chit chat on the subject matter
and how it relates to an incident in their own, long ago life.
To this end the reviewer deserves a slapped arse,
a pants down, bare cheeked slap,
even better if this done with an old fashioned wooden ruler,
and hard enough so the numbers imprinted into the skin.
What chance of improvement if honesty coming second to fear of upsetting ??
None.

Reviews

[Moonie]

Haha this got a giggle out of me for sure. I'm guilty of so many of these. When I was still new on the site, I used to give more (what's the word?) "harsh" reviews, but after a while, like so many other writers on here, I too sobered up. There are some really horrible writers around here, who seem to be blissfully unaware of the fact. I don't think a harsh review would wake them up to the reality, on the contrary if it were to have an impact at all, it would simply make them either immune to any constructive criticism if it comes their way, or would make them lose interest in writing altogether. Although, I feel that the true betterment of an artist can only come from taking criticism in a stride, I too have fallen victim to the endless cycle of giving and receiving praise over here.
I think the most relatable part was that I too notice how many people chew up the words of others, and spew their vomitus in the review. I, for one, am guilty of doing that....although even that is better than the ones who review back with an ambiguous "good writing", or something of that kind when you've spent a good amount of time on their poetry.

I ramble on too much, forgive me, lol been away from the site for quite a while, and i couldn't stop myself from rambling.

So yes, i vacillate between reviewing kindly, and reviewing well on WC, but at the end of the day, i know from my 4-5 years experience on here, that this is the best writing site out there, and i desperately miss being as active as i once was on here.

[Gee]

Nowt wrong with rambling m'dear, especially if you are out on a sunny day in pleasant countryside. Springtime's best for me, love to see the lambs gamboling, a bad habit, but at least they ain't taking drugs :))
I see we've been here about the same length of time, hopefully your writing has progressed at a better we are than mine.
Thank you for dropping in and sharing your words :))

[jacob erin-cilberto]

yes, this poem makes several good points. Mutual admiration is not helpful...criticism works, depending on how it is given. I was on another site and young, or new poets were often choked of their initiative to write because of harsh or demeaning comments. There are ways to approach, gently. I feel that way at any rate. I know sometimes I am probably guilty of not being harsh enough...but i remember how my writing started out, and it was a long process of learning. When I read on this site and comment I tend to lean towards commenting more on how pieces speak to me then being strictly technical. However there are limits, I have mentioned often that editing was needed, and sometimes that was met with appreciation and the poet did edit. Sometimes the poet asked me to edit, but I feel the poet should do that to his or her best ability before posting. And if the poet says "ignore grammar and spelling" I will not read....because for poets, we value words too much to do that. I know there are vast differences here at WC as far as levels of poetry and critiques, but I do think the sharing is important and for the most part I find much inspiration from reading others on this site. Too positive sometimes, yes, guilty of that, but being a teacher, we try to find some kind of middle ground between encouraging and discouraging those making the choice to share writing...or as in my case teaching, having no choice but to share. This piece provokes conversation, Gee.
j.

[Gee]

Hi Jacob, thanks.
I would imagine that many, like me, look forward to your visits and pointers on how to improve what we put out there as " writing"

[jacob erin-cilberto]

well there are surely times i am guilty of allowing a piece i read to start me reminiscing...sometimes i just respond, not as an editor but just as someone who has been there and done that.
this write has gotten so many interesting responses...you really started the ball rolling with this one.
j.

[Ken Simm.]

Honest and guilty as charged. Sometimes I see no harm in being poositive. In fact if I'm honest I always try to be positive. When I was teaching it was understood that all reports on a child's progress had to be positive. This gave me endless problems until I discovered the sentence 'Tommy has achieved everything he set out ot achieve.'
Much the same here in many but not all cases. I suppose contiuing my honesty fetish; it depends why the person is writng and what they are trying to achieve. If they are writing romance or so to give them pleasure then I can see no harm in allowing that pleasure and being positive if shallow. If they are being funny then again no harm in attempting to be humourous back. If the subject of the write is more complex then I will attempt to be more complex in return. I do not always understand or succeed.
I know sometimes it feels in here like a mutual appreciation society but people do approach creativity on many levels. I think the thing is to always be pleasant and constructive. Never negative just to score points.
Now I find myself going over past comments to your good self. Perhaps a little guiltly. Have I been always what I say above? Probably not. And for that you will have my apologies. Have I always been positive? Probably, for the reasons outlined above. Have I always understood? Probably not again. But I do try always to be empathic. That is my most important thing.
Creativity takes many forms. You and I both know that. Kindness is also creative. Negative criticim is not generally. Except when it is funny, (in the right place and to the right person) As Ambrose Pierce once said "The covers of this book are too far apart".
So you can be critical and still be funny. Or hopeful or constructive or just downright helpful. But just don't tell me it stinks because that helps nobody and your fleeting fun, (not you personally my good friend) is just that, fleeting.
And finally is the above long enough? I also refer you to my review of your present featured poem. As someone once said to me. "Not long but it does the job!"

[Gee]

Morning Ken, your last line could be easily applied to my todger when " knowing" a woman.
With regards to reviewing In guilty( very) of not leaving comments if what's written doesn't also me in th e chops explaining itself, as you will well know from my lack of reviews on your work. I visit, read, always admire the art work then most times leave without a trace. For this I apologise.
As for your reviews of my own offerings, they are always fair, have been constructive and are always accepted gladly. It is always good to see you and the horse appear on my page.
Hope all is well with you up North.
Thank you.

[Gee]

Also....slap
In..I'm

[Cherrie Palmer]

hmm, Good honest words, that I get.
Prepare yourself for a superfluous comment.
:)
I too will see a piece with many viewing but only a comment or two. Maybe none, many a none.
That makes me think, why do we write as poets? We want to feel or express a moment in time. To capture that feeling for display.
So when it comes to reviews I remind myself my job is to make the reader think or feel, possibly both. The perfect trifecta would add my perspective. Which is rare.

If a creative piece can stir heart or soul then that work is a success. Poetry should make a connection. No matter what.
Now what makes a soul a poet doesn't make a critic even though the Gordon Ramsay's of this world can get fame with a curt tongue. I would not like him over my shoulder while I write. A true recipe for a page of white.
Do I wish we had a more open forum when it comes to reviews, I do. Until then, just keep the pen moving.

[Gee]

I'm slowly learning to avoid the writes of those that it me, some saving me the bother by blocking me( for reasons known only to them)
Thank you for taking the time to both to read and comment on ( very well) Cherrie

[Gee]

" of those that irk... "

[Cherrie Palmer]

Lol I guess I do that as well. A little posturing goes along way

[Cherrie Palmer]

PS I'm glad you gave me irk. I was still running through the list of possibilities

[Chris Shaw]

As soon as you plant a poem on a page, it becomes the plaything of the reader. That means they can do what they like with it, because poetry is subjective. They can do all of the things you've mentioned. I take your point when the reader doesn't understand what a poem is about, but do they always have to know? Sometimes they might just get a feeling and that is OK too. When I leave a comment 'I do try and leave something of encouragement behind. A positive thought about a phrase or language, but I am not an academic and I am self taught, so hardly ever critique in detail. We do after all want people to stay here and improve, and they can do that just by reading good poetry. As for David, he is totally honest and he will rip poems apart. I visit him and he visits me. I am not put off by his total honesty. He can see through people. This has been an interesting and honest posting Gee. Good to read you.

Chris

[Gee]

Self taught to a standard that is well above the norm on this site :))
Thing is on here folk take critique as criticising, not realising the difference. I came on here, tentatively, posting only simple rhyming verse at first, but over time, with encouragement have tried to vary my writes. I'm by no means as gifted as many on here but would like to think that my writing has improved due to reading other writers work, and by also asking for and then needing any advice given.
I get frustrated when I read shite and then below it glowing reviews, which are obviously total bollocks ( a sadly none to often word used when reviewing)
Anyway, enough from me.
Thank you Christine

[Gee]

needing....heeding

[Chris Shaw]

I just remembered a time on here Gee where I gave honest critique and what I thought was helpful advice. I was accused of being hateful and then promptly blocked by one of her callers, even though she continued to ask me to call on her work. You can't please some people. I tend to keep my helpful advice for my own work :)

[sette]

it still depends on the stuff and not the one writing it thats me basically i still look for the substance in content i dont care about the technical side since i cant understand them i love the flow of words the cadence of words whether in a rhythmic pattern or not doesnt matter at all.

[Gee]

I too love the flow of a well written piece however I do need to know what the poem, story is about to properly enjoy

[John Alexander McFadyen]

I daren't scroll down this page just in case you have a cleverly positioned programme to judge if I have plagiarized then thoughts of fellow writers. You do of course capture here the essence of WC and websites of this ilk. I know some praise tripe for altruistic reasons, such as encouraging everyone to write. me I only remain friends with those whose writing I enjoy and from whom I learn. A very apt critique, although I am sure you took iot from my brain while I was abed!

[Gee]

I'm hoping the rohypnol prevents you from remembering me pillaging your brain John :)

[John Alexander McFadyen]

So........it was not just my brains you were after?