An interesting poem and highly sophisticated poem. Highest marks. It is extremely well written and develops your points clearly and powerfully. I just don't agree with all of them, but let me expand.
I fully agree that things are changing because of computers, and it has changed the way young people grow up. There is less interaction between people and more sitting for hours in front of the computer. What to do about it? Should we do something about it? It is a change, but is it a bad change?
I think that it IS a bad change, and I get the sense that you agree. But what is to be done? Computers, video games, appeal to human nature. It's good business to make it so. You are looking at things from perhaps the "young" perspective, but I can tell you that I know so many parents that are trying to fight this predilection for their kids to play video games. It's almost impossible. Believe me. I see the lengths parent go through without success.
So, there seems to be a bit of an admonition about that. I agree there are many that just give up and give their kids the opiate drug of our age, video games. But even parents that diligently fight this urge mostly seem to lose. Is this a problem? Yes, I think it is. What can we do about it? I don't think there is anything short of preventing big business from making the games. Like that's going to happen!
Now how concerned should we be? Well there are always modern fads that young people follow that their parents hate. Is this merely one of these? I don't know. It is true that the younger generations are, relatively speaking, experts on using computers. That's one of the good aspects of this.
I think it is what it is. There's not a lot we can do to change this trend. I think we'll cope somehow.
Now in the middle of the poem you write some words that strike at my core:
"The universities have got it all wrong
They don't understand growing up
They just understand the process
Another 12 step issue
They can place in peer reviewed journals
And pass it off as science."
As you know I am a university scientist as well as the Chief Scientist at my company.
First, it is not the job of the university to help students grow up. That is up to the student alone. The university is not a babysitter. The university has one purpose, and that is to teach. Further, that duty diminishes more and more as you proceed to advanced degrees, until eventually that is not their duty at all. At postgraduate levels it is solely the student's job to learn and the university is only there to provide an environment that aids in that process. And yep, you bet, what you describe is what is called science. No apologies.
So, at the university level, there is only one goal (we're talking about in a science department), and that is to publish work in peer reviewed journals and to push back the horizons of science. The student may participate if he/she wishes. If not, the student is soon gone and no advanced degree for him/her--you are an adult at this point, right? If you can't keep up, you're gone. That's called natural selection, and that's exactly what you'll experience when you enter the real world after you leave school.
Then there is the end section. You build up your idea--very well, by the way--and end in
"Do you understand what its like to be a computer?
Always being replaced ?"
Yes, I feel that all thinking adults do know what this is like. In the real world we are constantly replaced. We're replaced in jobs when we can't hack it. We're replaced even if we can hack it but someone better comes along. We're replaced if there is a downturn in the economy. We're replaced if there is a change in technology, and we're all replace if the big comet hits and the entire human species is replaced by something with more survival potential. We're always replaced. The entire history of mankind and all life on Earth is the story of change and being replaced. I'm sure you've heard the expression that the only constant is change itself. That's a truism.
As you can see by my long comment, your poem was extremely thought provoking. It was well written and your points were delivered powerfully. The points of view expressed by me in this review are simply my reactions. I'm sure the other side of these issues can also be argued aggressively and with merit. So don't get overly upset when I disagree. This is simply my point of view.
This poem was greatly enjoyed and sent my mind on a journey to find my own answers to the deep questions that you raised. And your focus was directly on some of the most important challenges facing young people as they try to prepare themselves to fact the world.
Kudos, highest marks, and my very best regards,
Rick
Posted 12 Years Ago
3 of 3 people found this review constructive.
12 Years Ago
Well Rick, I wish I could argue with you but I have to agree with you. Being hooked up to tech all t.. read moreWell Rick, I wish I could argue with you but I have to agree with you. Being hooked up to tech all the time makes people of my generation anti-social which is very bad because (forgive my lack of backing) being social is one of the reasons our race has survived so well. But now, if some cataclysmic occurance like a massive EMP made it to where all electrical contraptions were no longer useful, we'd be in a right pickle! But being technologically advanced is not too bad for this day and age, but I am worried about how people will be able to adapt to such occurances as I had stated earlier when people have to yell orders to each other in order to keep from being eaten by a bear as they're running away. One day, I am afraid that we most likely will be so enveloped by technology that we'll be living our daily lives in some sort of virtual reality while our bodies just waste away. Some people may actually like that idea, but it's just not real! Would you think that it may be possible that we are headed that way?
12 Years Ago
I'd like to think they would communicate in abbreviations and try to yell out emoticons and such rid.. read moreI'd like to think they would communicate in abbreviations and try to yell out emoticons and such ridiculousness as that in the somewhat near future.
This comment has been deleted by the poster.
12 Years Ago
Hi Cole, Yes, I definitely think we are headed in that direction, i.e., becoming fused with machines.. read moreHi Cole, Yes, I definitely think we are headed in that direction, i.e., becoming fused with machines. It sounds repulsive now to some, but the initial heart transplants were met with horror as were the first hip transplants, etc. The sense of horror is triggered by a new experience or thought. Interracial and same sex marriages are still being met with horror by many people. At the same time people can be perfectly comfortable with what we now consider horrors, such as slavery, inequality of women, and even cannibalism. The fact is that we can get comfortable with just about anything, and we can be horrified by things we'll eventually find natural. The human being is a creature with blinders and we're very short sighted.
This comment has been deleted by the poster.
12 Years Ago
Just call me Matt, since I am not Cole. But yeah, it is disappointing how we can become so desensiti.. read moreJust call me Matt, since I am not Cole. But yeah, it is disappointing how we can become so desensitized to these things. But at long as most of the mechanical parts are meant to help patients rather than be some optional transformation, I am fine with that. I'd rather stay organic. : )
12 Years Ago
I apologize for not introducing myself sooner.
12 Years Ago
Cole is the guy underneath the words, AUTHOR'S NOTE. That's what he really looks like.
12 Years Ago
Hi Matt,
I don't know. Some optional transformations are sort of good. Getting an educ.. read moreHi Matt,
I don't know. Some optional transformations are sort of good. Getting an education is optional. Curing a disease is optional. Saving a dying species is optional. Don't discard optional too soon.
And about this organic thing, I'm not so sure of that. Why is that so good? Maybe there is something much better out there.
Best regards,
Rick
12 Years Ago
I shall get back to you when I have the answers.
12 Years Ago
Wow, an incredible review Rick. Thank you so much for taking so much time to review this. As for the.. read moreWow, an incredible review Rick. Thank you so much for taking so much time to review this. As for the poem I think I had written it so it could be taken in so many different ways. When I originally wrote this piece I was in a really bad state of depression, and not the "attention seeker" depression, but actual depression. I really got depressed about graduating and my all of a sudden fear of death. So in this depression I got extremely intrested in science (mainly neurosceince and quauntm physics), I wanted to know everything about the universe, trying to find a way out of death sort of. When I wrote this I poored everything I felt into this piece. This was actually the very first piece I wrote on my new computer (hence the metaphor). I just didn't want to feel like when I die i'll just be forgotten like the computer I had just shot in the trash. The part you pointed out Rick ( the "12 step issue" line) was a hiddlen little jab I was taking at some major scientific journals. Im a fan of Mario Beaugards work so I was a little upset when Dawkins disregarded his work without even taking a look at it. I do not think this is my best piece because I wrote it on impulse and looking back on it (This is 6 months old by now) there are a few things I would of changed.
Thank you guys so much for all the reviews.
12 Years Ago
Dear Matt,
I think poetry is a living thing. I advise that you go back and change the .. read moreDear Matt,
I think poetry is a living thing. I advise that you go back and change the things you think should be changed. If you feel the need, call it version 2, but I'm still changing poems I wrote years ago.
Rick
12 Years Ago
That was Cole, not me.
12 Years Ago
He is the author.
12 Years Ago
Now that I think of it, I can list the pros and cons to being fused with machines.
Pros.. read moreNow that I think of it, I can list the pros and cons to being fused with machines.
Pros:
May not have to worry about food and water
The performance of the individual would be greatly heightened, allowing us to be more efficient.
The mechanical parts could function as not only a shield and weapon because of the materials durability, but could also be fitted with the tools needed to do certain jobs.
We'd never feel tired and physical pain would be nonexistent.
We could customize the parts so that our appearance or the functions of the parts could be changed on a whim.
Damages are easily repairable and parts are replaceable.
We could even download information straight into our brains, possibly be able to master it upon download completion.
Old parts can be recycled for new ones, unlike organic limbs, ect. due to the fact that they deteriorate and decompose over time.
Our bodies could possibly withstand harsh climates when the world gets in a much hotter state than we are in now.
Space travel and flight may become possible for everyone.
We may no longer need cell phones and computers as lines of communication, because of the fact that the ability to talk with friends would be already integrated into some parts.
Now for the cons:
Because of the inability to feel physical pain, we may lose empathy for one another.
If we ran out of metal and everyone had damaged parts that were beyond repair, we'd be in big trouble!
We may come to the point where we don't fully appreciate the value of hard work and effort because every job is too easy, making them boring
and unfulfilling.
Personally, I feel that sweat and hard work pays off more than strength that is not one's own. It feels good knowing that you have done something all on your own and have done it well. : )
Our social skills may even worsen more than they are now.
If a massive worldwide EMP burst or some other calamity had caused the machine parts to fail permanently, we'd no longer be able to do anything.
In the desert, sand would get into the joints and servos, causing damage and stiffness.
Parts that aren't protected from water could short out, causing harm and/or death.
Their could be some materials in the parts to keep them running that are poisonous to us or cause adverse effects to our health.
We could easily get hacked and be under the control of some depraved madman that either wants to murder mass amounts of people, or dominate the world. That is rather frightening!
If the world gets really hot, the metals will sear the real us because we'd be encased in our own frying pan.
Many of the parts could cost tons of money, making it only feasible for the rich and powerful to obtain.
We may not be used to the new body parts once we get them, so we would have trouble holding back our strength and controlling them would be a problem.
We possibly could lose the precious things that make us human.
The impact on the world from all that wastefulness we tend to have with products like batteries and such would increase and become much worse than before.
We may lose the ability to reproduce. (I'll admit that some people would make the world better by not bringing more idiots into the world, so it's both good and bad.)
We'd possibly separate ourselves even further from nature.
At first, organics would not be accepting of them.
Organics could be treated worse than dogs because of the fact that the Cybers created a sort of Caste system, where Cybers/Cyborgs rule over all and Organics are worthless filth to them. As if we needed more inequality in the world.
That's all I could think of.
12 Years Ago
By the way, that is an interesting way to look at poetry, I wish you good luck with your edits!
Sorry, got a bit confused with who was who. Guess I was just not pay.. read moreHi Matt and Cole,
Sorry, got a bit confused with who was who. Guess I was just not paying attention to the avatars. Got that fixed, now.
Now Matt, these are all interesting ideas. Who knows what is ahead in our evolutionary track. It could very well being merging with machines (there is an old, but interesting book, I read when I was in my twenties called "As Man Becomes Machine", or something closely to this effect). The normal evolutionary rules will, of course, apply. So the negative aspects will have their costs. Survival is all that really matters in this Universe. Creatures with the best survival possibilities will be all that are left in the end. And it's really hard to guess what that will look like without going through it. The technologies to come will be, I think, beyond our current imagination.
All the best,
Rick
12 Years Ago
By the way Cole, you are welcome and thank you Rick for this discussion/deliberation on this piece. .. read moreBy the way Cole, you are welcome and thank you Rick for this discussion/deliberation on this piece. It really made me think and I enjoyed that.
I love the idea you presented, and the execution was talented- as always. I'm not so sure about the last two lines, however. The length and diction... it seems a little out of place.
Beautiful turn of phrases. Lyrical, almost.
I looooove the concept but the last stanza kills it. It kinda murders the surprise because the questions posed are stale.
An interesting poem and highly sophisticated poem. Highest marks. It is extremely well written and develops your points clearly and powerfully. I just don't agree with all of them, but let me expand.
I fully agree that things are changing because of computers, and it has changed the way young people grow up. There is less interaction between people and more sitting for hours in front of the computer. What to do about it? Should we do something about it? It is a change, but is it a bad change?
I think that it IS a bad change, and I get the sense that you agree. But what is to be done? Computers, video games, appeal to human nature. It's good business to make it so. You are looking at things from perhaps the "young" perspective, but I can tell you that I know so many parents that are trying to fight this predilection for their kids to play video games. It's almost impossible. Believe me. I see the lengths parent go through without success.
So, there seems to be a bit of an admonition about that. I agree there are many that just give up and give their kids the opiate drug of our age, video games. But even parents that diligently fight this urge mostly seem to lose. Is this a problem? Yes, I think it is. What can we do about it? I don't think there is anything short of preventing big business from making the games. Like that's going to happen!
Now how concerned should we be? Well there are always modern fads that young people follow that their parents hate. Is this merely one of these? I don't know. It is true that the younger generations are, relatively speaking, experts on using computers. That's one of the good aspects of this.
I think it is what it is. There's not a lot we can do to change this trend. I think we'll cope somehow.
Now in the middle of the poem you write some words that strike at my core:
"The universities have got it all wrong
They don't understand growing up
They just understand the process
Another 12 step issue
They can place in peer reviewed journals
And pass it off as science."
As you know I am a university scientist as well as the Chief Scientist at my company.
First, it is not the job of the university to help students grow up. That is up to the student alone. The university is not a babysitter. The university has one purpose, and that is to teach. Further, that duty diminishes more and more as you proceed to advanced degrees, until eventually that is not their duty at all. At postgraduate levels it is solely the student's job to learn and the university is only there to provide an environment that aids in that process. And yep, you bet, what you describe is what is called science. No apologies.
So, at the university level, there is only one goal (we're talking about in a science department), and that is to publish work in peer reviewed journals and to push back the horizons of science. The student may participate if he/she wishes. If not, the student is soon gone and no advanced degree for him/her--you are an adult at this point, right? If you can't keep up, you're gone. That's called natural selection, and that's exactly what you'll experience when you enter the real world after you leave school.
Then there is the end section. You build up your idea--very well, by the way--and end in
"Do you understand what its like to be a computer?
Always being replaced ?"
Yes, I feel that all thinking adults do know what this is like. In the real world we are constantly replaced. We're replaced in jobs when we can't hack it. We're replaced even if we can hack it but someone better comes along. We're replaced if there is a downturn in the economy. We're replaced if there is a change in technology, and we're all replace if the big comet hits and the entire human species is replaced by something with more survival potential. We're always replaced. The entire history of mankind and all life on Earth is the story of change and being replaced. I'm sure you've heard the expression that the only constant is change itself. That's a truism.
As you can see by my long comment, your poem was extremely thought provoking. It was well written and your points were delivered powerfully. The points of view expressed by me in this review are simply my reactions. I'm sure the other side of these issues can also be argued aggressively and with merit. So don't get overly upset when I disagree. This is simply my point of view.
This poem was greatly enjoyed and sent my mind on a journey to find my own answers to the deep questions that you raised. And your focus was directly on some of the most important challenges facing young people as they try to prepare themselves to fact the world.
Kudos, highest marks, and my very best regards,
Rick
Posted 12 Years Ago
3 of 3 people found this review constructive.
12 Years Ago
Well Rick, I wish I could argue with you but I have to agree with you. Being hooked up to tech all t.. read moreWell Rick, I wish I could argue with you but I have to agree with you. Being hooked up to tech all the time makes people of my generation anti-social which is very bad because (forgive my lack of backing) being social is one of the reasons our race has survived so well. But now, if some cataclysmic occurance like a massive EMP made it to where all electrical contraptions were no longer useful, we'd be in a right pickle! But being technologically advanced is not too bad for this day and age, but I am worried about how people will be able to adapt to such occurances as I had stated earlier when people have to yell orders to each other in order to keep from being eaten by a bear as they're running away. One day, I am afraid that we most likely will be so enveloped by technology that we'll be living our daily lives in some sort of virtual reality while our bodies just waste away. Some people may actually like that idea, but it's just not real! Would you think that it may be possible that we are headed that way?
12 Years Ago
I'd like to think they would communicate in abbreviations and try to yell out emoticons and such rid.. read moreI'd like to think they would communicate in abbreviations and try to yell out emoticons and such ridiculousness as that in the somewhat near future.
This comment has been deleted by the poster.
12 Years Ago
Hi Cole, Yes, I definitely think we are headed in that direction, i.e., becoming fused with machines.. read moreHi Cole, Yes, I definitely think we are headed in that direction, i.e., becoming fused with machines. It sounds repulsive now to some, but the initial heart transplants were met with horror as were the first hip transplants, etc. The sense of horror is triggered by a new experience or thought. Interracial and same sex marriages are still being met with horror by many people. At the same time people can be perfectly comfortable with what we now consider horrors, such as slavery, inequality of women, and even cannibalism. The fact is that we can get comfortable with just about anything, and we can be horrified by things we'll eventually find natural. The human being is a creature with blinders and we're very short sighted.
This comment has been deleted by the poster.
12 Years Ago
Just call me Matt, since I am not Cole. But yeah, it is disappointing how we can become so desensiti.. read moreJust call me Matt, since I am not Cole. But yeah, it is disappointing how we can become so desensitized to these things. But at long as most of the mechanical parts are meant to help patients rather than be some optional transformation, I am fine with that. I'd rather stay organic. : )
12 Years Ago
I apologize for not introducing myself sooner.
12 Years Ago
Cole is the guy underneath the words, AUTHOR'S NOTE. That's what he really looks like.
12 Years Ago
Hi Matt,
I don't know. Some optional transformations are sort of good. Getting an educ.. read moreHi Matt,
I don't know. Some optional transformations are sort of good. Getting an education is optional. Curing a disease is optional. Saving a dying species is optional. Don't discard optional too soon.
And about this organic thing, I'm not so sure of that. Why is that so good? Maybe there is something much better out there.
Best regards,
Rick
12 Years Ago
I shall get back to you when I have the answers.
12 Years Ago
Wow, an incredible review Rick. Thank you so much for taking so much time to review this. As for the.. read moreWow, an incredible review Rick. Thank you so much for taking so much time to review this. As for the poem I think I had written it so it could be taken in so many different ways. When I originally wrote this piece I was in a really bad state of depression, and not the "attention seeker" depression, but actual depression. I really got depressed about graduating and my all of a sudden fear of death. So in this depression I got extremely intrested in science (mainly neurosceince and quauntm physics), I wanted to know everything about the universe, trying to find a way out of death sort of. When I wrote this I poored everything I felt into this piece. This was actually the very first piece I wrote on my new computer (hence the metaphor). I just didn't want to feel like when I die i'll just be forgotten like the computer I had just shot in the trash. The part you pointed out Rick ( the "12 step issue" line) was a hiddlen little jab I was taking at some major scientific journals. Im a fan of Mario Beaugards work so I was a little upset when Dawkins disregarded his work without even taking a look at it. I do not think this is my best piece because I wrote it on impulse and looking back on it (This is 6 months old by now) there are a few things I would of changed.
Thank you guys so much for all the reviews.
12 Years Ago
Dear Matt,
I think poetry is a living thing. I advise that you go back and change the .. read moreDear Matt,
I think poetry is a living thing. I advise that you go back and change the things you think should be changed. If you feel the need, call it version 2, but I'm still changing poems I wrote years ago.
Rick
12 Years Ago
That was Cole, not me.
12 Years Ago
He is the author.
12 Years Ago
Now that I think of it, I can list the pros and cons to being fused with machines.
Pros.. read moreNow that I think of it, I can list the pros and cons to being fused with machines.
Pros:
May not have to worry about food and water
The performance of the individual would be greatly heightened, allowing us to be more efficient.
The mechanical parts could function as not only a shield and weapon because of the materials durability, but could also be fitted with the tools needed to do certain jobs.
We'd never feel tired and physical pain would be nonexistent.
We could customize the parts so that our appearance or the functions of the parts could be changed on a whim.
Damages are easily repairable and parts are replaceable.
We could even download information straight into our brains, possibly be able to master it upon download completion.
Old parts can be recycled for new ones, unlike organic limbs, ect. due to the fact that they deteriorate and decompose over time.
Our bodies could possibly withstand harsh climates when the world gets in a much hotter state than we are in now.
Space travel and flight may become possible for everyone.
We may no longer need cell phones and computers as lines of communication, because of the fact that the ability to talk with friends would be already integrated into some parts.
Now for the cons:
Because of the inability to feel physical pain, we may lose empathy for one another.
If we ran out of metal and everyone had damaged parts that were beyond repair, we'd be in big trouble!
We may come to the point where we don't fully appreciate the value of hard work and effort because every job is too easy, making them boring
and unfulfilling.
Personally, I feel that sweat and hard work pays off more than strength that is not one's own. It feels good knowing that you have done something all on your own and have done it well. : )
Our social skills may even worsen more than they are now.
If a massive worldwide EMP burst or some other calamity had caused the machine parts to fail permanently, we'd no longer be able to do anything.
In the desert, sand would get into the joints and servos, causing damage and stiffness.
Parts that aren't protected from water could short out, causing harm and/or death.
Their could be some materials in the parts to keep them running that are poisonous to us or cause adverse effects to our health.
We could easily get hacked and be under the control of some depraved madman that either wants to murder mass amounts of people, or dominate the world. That is rather frightening!
If the world gets really hot, the metals will sear the real us because we'd be encased in our own frying pan.
Many of the parts could cost tons of money, making it only feasible for the rich and powerful to obtain.
We may not be used to the new body parts once we get them, so we would have trouble holding back our strength and controlling them would be a problem.
We possibly could lose the precious things that make us human.
The impact on the world from all that wastefulness we tend to have with products like batteries and such would increase and become much worse than before.
We may lose the ability to reproduce. (I'll admit that some people would make the world better by not bringing more idiots into the world, so it's both good and bad.)
We'd possibly separate ourselves even further from nature.
At first, organics would not be accepting of them.
Organics could be treated worse than dogs because of the fact that the Cybers created a sort of Caste system, where Cybers/Cyborgs rule over all and Organics are worthless filth to them. As if we needed more inequality in the world.
That's all I could think of.
12 Years Ago
By the way, that is an interesting way to look at poetry, I wish you good luck with your edits!
Sorry, got a bit confused with who was who. Guess I was just not pay.. read moreHi Matt and Cole,
Sorry, got a bit confused with who was who. Guess I was just not paying attention to the avatars. Got that fixed, now.
Now Matt, these are all interesting ideas. Who knows what is ahead in our evolutionary track. It could very well being merging with machines (there is an old, but interesting book, I read when I was in my twenties called "As Man Becomes Machine", or something closely to this effect). The normal evolutionary rules will, of course, apply. So the negative aspects will have their costs. Survival is all that really matters in this Universe. Creatures with the best survival possibilities will be all that are left in the end. And it's really hard to guess what that will look like without going through it. The technologies to come will be, I think, beyond our current imagination.
All the best,
Rick
12 Years Ago
By the way Cole, you are welcome and thank you Rick for this discussion/deliberation on this piece. .. read moreBy the way Cole, you are welcome and thank you Rick for this discussion/deliberation on this piece. It really made me think and I enjoyed that.
I like this poem a lot, it was very provocative and made me think hard about what growing up has been like, and how it's viewed by people. I felt like you kind of disparaged the sterile scientific way of understanding life and trying to analyze the human experience as if it were something as simple/synthetic as a machine. I like the dichotomy between the first half of the poem and the second part, where the analogy to computers is explicitly set out. Really thoughtful write and the song matches up well with the subject.
I love the comparison of the computer to life. I can actually relate to this. Expecially at this age. We are soon going to graduate high school and are off to college and no one really understands what it's like to have to part from your old friends and start of brand new (like a computer being remade ever couple of years).
Yeah, I am babbling now... but i know exactly how this feels, us being the same age and all. haha
Great Work! :D
Only one type computer can be updated. They know what they are doing. Must replace this item every year and they are making more money. Not a bad business to be in. Thank you for the outstanding poem.
Coyote
An anxiety that is deeper than anything else in the person, certainly greater than the human or natural impulses, that moans for both of them and coaxes them into a greater endeavor. It is an apt testimony of our times.
25 / Canada
I'm back ;)
New series: "Name one thing in this photo"
1. Grocery list and a Love letter
2. Went Wrong
3. 24
4. The Pacific Theater
5. A SATA cable frayed
6. One Thing
7. .. more..
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