"Reviews And Comments...Thoughts And Apologies"

"Reviews And Comments...Thoughts And Apologies"

I'ld like to speak with all you guys for a bit (Guys IS non-gender related when taken as a whole).  First a lil background to get beyond...

I've been a member here for like ever, since June 16, 2011.  Seventy-Six days, counting today - well, Seventy-Seven actually - its tomorrow now.  I've looked at THOUSANDS of writes - because I wanted to - NOT had to.  Along the way I somehow managed to find and/or be found by those on my Friends list (and even more that aren't - yet) and have achieved one known Block and have Blocked one on my own.  I've even responded to hundreds of Read-Requests.

I've test joined a few groups and was invited to a few others: a couple worked, even found one to be exceptional: a couple didn't work, and I resigned; and I have another that I was asked to join that I still haven't fully decided upon.

As with just about everyone else, I have experienced the loading delays and frustrations inherent to not being able to connect to WritersCafe (WC).  Web research has shown me this has been and will continue to be an ongoing problem until better equipment (not additional professional staff support) can be acquired... I believe its likely a money issue - but that isn't necessarily so (just my own opinion).

Now then:

One thing I HAVE continually noticed is the number of views vs reviews recorded upon EACH work of ALL authors.  Notice I said nothing of "Comments" - because - there is NO marked space here FOR 'Comments".   Seems most have learned the value of silence.  100 views - 5 reviews,  40 views - 1 review,  15 views - o reviews... I think you can see what I am alluding.  Silence doesn't mean not being read or not being liked... and many return and return work after work - quietly.

And then there ARE Reviews - but wait!  Most aren't reviews... they ARE "comments".
What we have done is make a place to 'comment', to speak of what we feel - to give an opinion and/or word of moral support based on our perception of the content rather than discuss any of the technical aspects (including merits or faults) of a work.  Most of us are giving that perceived 'pat-on-the-back' - and its GOOD that we do that because shyt happens and life can HURT and we can get soooo lost being by ourselves INSIDE as well as outside.  Sometimes its an abusive relationship a person is trapped within and sometimes its just that no other person in the world gives a damn.  It gets lonely being you, being me, being anyone and the 'lifeline' of a comment - the sheer recognition of a person's existence by another person can make a real difference.

But - always a but, isn't there?  But, the space is "designated" for review - and soooo many BEG to be given clues, tips, hints of ways to improve(?), grammatical and technical corrections, concrete (NOT perceptions) exposure of flaws, non-destructive critique, constructive criticism, and more.  Not everyone understands how.  Everyone has their OWN opinion as to right and wrong.  Cliches - even about AGE and maturity - have a basis in reality as well as exceptions.  Being an author carries responsibility as well as ownership. 

We are human and being human means admitting to flaws.  I HAVE some flaws - serious flaws, mean flaws, wickedly BAD flaws, and minor ones too.  I am not always thoughtful (notice I did NOT say thought-full).  I don't always pause and think of how my thoughts will be perceived - I am righteous in my self-ness and always so clear to myself about the mud of my meaning that I KNOW the reader viewer will perfectly understand my "views".  I can hurt people and HAVE... with intent, but much more so WITHOUT any intent.  People I care about, people I found and thought to be exceptional in ability as well as for their humanity... I can be hurtful.  I don't WANT to hurt people, but I NEED to realize I CAN - even when I specifically try not to. 

I apologize - not for being me, but for not adequately expressing what I tried so very hard and yet inadequately said.  I do NOT pause with ANY persons' work with a forethought intent to leave behind thoughts that willfully offend or hurt - EVER!  I WILL privately AND publicly respond as appropriate to such perceptions.

Examples of my lack of expression abound: (Please open links in a seperate window)

from: Lambi.Luminescence

Is my heart in this one enough?  :/ 

http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/UninspiredYeti/785871/

To: Lambi,

THAT was flat out A W E S O M E!  You rocked it with that one!  So many times all I see over and over and over is really pretty words... nothing in them - just pretty words.  No spark, fire, WANT, heart, HURT, PASSION... just pretty words that you forget before you even leave a page, hell - sometimes as you leave one stanza for the next.  After a hundred a day or so... you get so numb - and when you SEE ones that actually KNOW words and their shades and can do so much more than turn a pretty phrase well, it hurts more.

I KNOW I likely pissed you off - wasn't the intent at all... nor any bullying... but damn - woman you NAILED IT with this one...

T H A N K   Y O U!!  It made my WHOLE day, really - you did.
Chris

From:  Lambi

Thanks, really. :) I worked hard on that one. You did make me a bit angry, but it helped me write. I'd be honored if you'd share the link. thanks again. Lambi

This Poem HAS its author in it and intertwined through it - its real, raw, gutsy, and beyond merely good - way beyond!  Because it has that indefinable BITE of what having heart IS all about - at least to me.  Please open the link in a seperate window.

http://www.writerscafe.org/writing/UninspiredYeti/785871/


Another Poet:  Teri B

Created and posted a work of "Found Poetry"  and I went off the deep end of a pool with my mind tied in silly knots.  A legitimate Poetic Form - Found and Parallel Poetry - and I went off brain-dead and mind-stupid.  Yep I am flawed - seriously flawed.  I'm ashamed she poofed it because I was unthinking... I hope she will bring it back.

Basiclly guys - Silence isn't 'Golden' when its all you have.  Reviews are more than technical opinions.  Comments are also recognition.  And each of us needs a taste of reality - as often as we forget to be real.  This was posted by me 12/18/2000.

"Can There Be Bad poetry..."
I've oft' wondered
Why people cry,
Moan, groan, b***h and complain
cause someone took a chance
And tried to express
In whatever (perhaps ONLY)
Manner they could -
Something they FELT or NEEDED
To be said...
Or written...
Or sung.
I may not agree
With choice of words...
Symmetry... time...
Placement... rhyme... 
Spelling... grammar...
Subject or matter...
But...
I listen 'tween the lines
For their intent...

For the needs
(Sometimes so hopelessly expressed):
Anger and pain, or
Sorrow and tears, or
Joy and laughter, or
Hopes and fears, even
Wishes and dreams.

I am not God...
I don't judge cause or intent...
To stamp with indelible authority
Right or wrong,
To preach my way or no way.
I'm just a man,
Part of humanity's faceless clan,
A brother willing to touch AND hold
Outstretched hand... young OR old,
Silly, chilly, or bold.

I listen 'cause I know
No other way to be
The person that is ... me.

Can there be bad poetry?

Chris
as an addendum:

Can there be bad poetry?
No

Less than Great?
Hell yes - mine is even at the lower end of THAT!  But as long as it is the honest attempt of a person to share their thoughts the only way they knew or know how without a conscious effort to harm or hurt any other individual... poetry isn't bad.

Chris

Reviews

[...]

I liked your honesty and how this writing speaking very open on subject of reviews here.i think on any writing web sites are reviews very same. I give up to receive any honest reviews or any truthful response. I also give up to be popular here. Important how you feel about your writing. You known very well what's your weak points of your writing.let be honest real poetry is not here. But still we can make this writing here quiet strong and also our reviews. Thank you for interesting thoughts.

[KAOlmsted]

Some of the author's *ahem* "comments" on my work: (and I quote)

"and so it begins... reads well."

"I want to turn the page - that says it all..."

"still moving and turning"

"Tight and you keep the details covered..."

"going well"

"I will continue tomorrow..." (You never did, by the way)

I would have rather had the reviews, Chris. But I appreciate the comments. If a writer cannot take constructive criticism, that writer should not post on a site that is designed specifically for reviewing and giving feedback. I welcome feedback, because I am a serious writer trying to hone my craft. There are no "bad" or "hurtful" reviews, IF the reviews are truthful and helpful. And if they're not, if they're just hurtful, well...I would like to think I am smart enough to shake those off. If you come back to my work, I would hope you would give me a proper "review".

As for reviewing this piece? "Reads well." ;-)

-kimmer

[olla]

Anais Nin wrote erotica for a dollar a page.. but even what she wrote just for the audience said something about her..I liked this because it reminds both the reviewer and the reviewed what the difference between a comment and a review really is.. with some writers I find the content so compelling that I really must comment..

[Christina May Shanaberg]

You don't love me, anymore, and I miss you! Heck, stop by and hurt me, sometime!! I've got broad shoulders!!!

A bit of advise and something that I use is make your comments and, then, give edit advise, afterwards. It seems to work. I work both sides of the fence.

There is no bad poetry, just bad perceivers. We wouldn't write it, if we didn't have something, in our hearts, to say.

WritersCafe.Org is a writing community and, well, I guess everyone knows that we are all missing a screw or two! Keep writing, because someone out there needs to be reading your words!!

[Cardinal Robin]

refreshing to read something of critical clarity. So few written words are real and ordinary expressing the simple profound truths. Well done Chris, reminds me of Milton's essay on a Classic Education.
Through selective friending on Writers Cafe you can come to know the nature of certain critics and invite their type of commentary re: form, grammar etc.

The part on expressing oneself and the rawness it can be in the careless realm of others was well put, so close to cliche without being trite. You have invaluable language skills for cutting through modern rhetoric and abusive hype.
This prose is an excellent example of how difficult it is to write from a conversational straight forward tone and sound natural...in this case so well done. It also speaks to the phenomenon of writing from the heart: the form of what is said is organically congruous with Truth.

[anne p. murray- LadeeAn..]

Bad poetry vs good poetry????? Who am I to say what's good or bad?
It's like saying most people like fruit, but some like bananas more than oranges and some hate bananas but like apples, but only like red delicious apples, or they only like bananas when they're ripe. Then there are some who hate fruit...period...'yada, yada, yada. Who are we to pass judgement on good or bad?
Writing poetry is so personal it's about our own feeling, thoughts, good or bad or indifferent, for someone to criticize my personal thoughts, (my poetry)they'd have to be in my head...and they aren't
Me personally, if someone wants to critique my writings and they have something negative to say about it, send me an email. Why should we say negative things about a person's writings, so everyone can see it . It calls for a little finesse...like good manners. We don't yell all over the store to a person who crowds in line, do we...(well... maybe some do) If a person misspells or makes grammatical errors, email them and tell them. I appreciate it when someone does that. But if someone is purposely trying to embarrass me publicly so everyone who reads my work can see how they chopped it down...that I don't like. I'll delete the R &R, and if I feel like it I'll email them and tell them so. I don't think anyone appreciates the feelings of being chastised. If I do at times make an improper R & R, which I'm sure I've done...being human and all. Please tell me so, because I don;t like being mean, but I will stand up for myself and appreciate it when someone else stands up for themselves in a manner that's not abusive

[Teri B]

Rather than create an issue around the idea of "bad" poetry, I think it is important to agree that encouraging people to speak from their hearts for themselves is the ULTIMATE in education! As a teacher of 31 years and an academic, I have seen all kinds of writing in this country and in the others where I have taught and studied. What worries me is not so much the technical flaws in people's writing, or even evidence of flawed thinking - those can be corrected. What worries me is the sometime ABSENCE of thinking, in exchange for a regurgitation of another's (usually a teacher's) thoughts. True education does not seek to make a clone of anyone, but rather to engender independent thinking about everything...even "good" and "bad" poetry! Writing is very personal - if people can "speak" through their writing, let them! It's better than thoughtless silence!

By the way, Chris, thanks for the apology! I will tell you here what I told you privately...it wasn't necessary! *hugs*

And yes...I will repost my poem, not because you asked, but because, as I also told you earlier, I know it for what it is, and recognize its merits as such.

[Robin]

listening , thinking

[bob, small b. aka invs]

i don't understand the concept of there being no such thing as bad poetry. if someone believes that, they simply don't believe that poetry is an art or that there is such a thing as talent which drives art. i don't think anyone argues that there are no such things as bad movies. or bad songs. or bad paintings. why is poetry the realm of subjectivity more than any other art? one might argue that even bad poetry can be cathartic or useful to the writer, but that doesn't make it good. it doesn't make it art. we live in a world of declining standards and relativism. if a person can't recognize a bad poem, they need education.

[Ed Hart]

yes yes yes...an excellent and clarifying write, Chris...i would say that clarity is your strong suit