Underground Writers Network Forum A Call To Arms

Fellow Members of the UWN,

I call upon thee,
I look to your kindly souls,
You are all great people,
Worth a thousand Byrons
And a dozen Dr. Johnsons,

I wish there was enough time in the world
To read you all
And to give a kindly review

But i must ask you
I must make a call to arms
For the sakes of friends
Known, and ladies unknown,

Stand up with us
Against the vicious stalkers
That infest this site
And ruin real lives

Please stand for those
Who suffer
From the hands of the stalkers
Or the cafe shall be many
A worthy writer shorter.

?

There have been as of late many sad occurrences on the site.

On one side, a few accounts have been hacked, and people have received insulting comments or reviews from others who had no idea about it, since they didn't write these reviews/comments.

Secondly, people continue to be particularly defensive of their writing as if the reviews were personal attacks. It is important to develop ways to defend your writing, as you will have to do so in the publishing world. Yet, when someone takes the time to go through a piece of writing and point out ways to improve it, as long as the person is not being rude in their speech, there is no need to jump the gun and feel attacked. Respect is the foremost quality we can aim to develop in interacting with others, and it should be a priority. We all understand the emotional involvement an artist has with his/her creations, but the fact that there is room for improvement does not take away anything from it.

Last, I would like to remark how poor the quality of reviews has gotten in the site. Most people limit to saying "nice work", "great job", etc. without seemingly even going through the piece. Certainly, most of us do not have the time to give through reviews all the time. But pointing out something about the message, or a detail we picked up indicates that the reader actually read the piece. Also, none should fear expressing their opinion sincerely just because of people's emotionally immature reactions. As long as politeness and respect are kept in mind, all should understand that any reviews given, whether pointing positive or negative aspects of the piece are done with the intention of helping a fellow writer get better. We might be right, we might be wrong, but as long as our intention is sincere and our expression righteous, there should be no fear of free speech.

Close yer eyes, 'cause here comes yet another s****y, sub-par review from PB:
(need to lay off the J's)

I don't understand!! Most people are a******s, and the rest of them are schmucks... that I do understand.

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I've talked to you about some works, and you do have insightful thoughts to share. At times we all find it hard to put it to words, and other times we don't have the time (pardon the redundance) to do it.

I guess it's always better to say something than nothing at all. But my main point in this is for all to be able to feel free to say what they please, without fearing the reaction of someone else. As long as we are respectful and mindful.

I'm confused, I must have been talking about something else. I obviously don't belong here.

When it comes to reading/reviewing: people ARE too nice...
I guess they really are afraid of hearting people's feelings. You've read my work... it's crap, I've seen better poetry in my toilet!! And the rankings, they're all fucked up. Is there a cheat code?? How the f**k do you get 10,000 points??!! We need some Jordan Rules for the Cafe!! Everybody gets five(5) stars!! You want a piece of candy too?? S**t. I give up. I quit. Here's the towel. Watered down, iced tea, two(2) lumps please.

Hello, Beautiful People!!!

Writerscafe, for me; has been a wonderful and invigorating experience.
I thank everyone so much for reading and reviewing my work whenever they do so.

I've seen one or two strange "hacker" cases on here; but otherwise, everyone who I've come across have been very insightful and exceptionally intelligent folk.

I think all we have to do is be courteous with one another and also exercise caution while using the site (just like any other site). Don't give out personal information, don't be rude and don't instigate problems that are unnecessary. Be peaceful and be mature.

With that, I feel we can keep out quaint and AWESOME community the thriving and talent-packed place that it is-- for a very long time!

To all my friends: I love you guys!!!
::Hugs::

Be Well,
Amy Lou

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Here is the problem. As Val stated some people take reviews way too personally. If someone really wants me to be completely honest with them. I will be completely honest with them. Only if I know they will take it with a grain of salt. The reason I tend to stick with the positive. When I was first on here read a piece and gave it a rating I thought it deserved (back when you had to use stars). I also stated why I didn't like it and gave suggestions how how I thought they could improve the piece. I also put things that I liked in there too. I got a rather nasty message from the author about my review and since then I haven't been that kind of honest with people. I I feel I can't say anything good about a piece I just won't review it. Also some people like to give pay back reviews. Which is purposely giving a bad review because they got a negative one in return.

Also there was a thread about stars and such. A group of people here feel that under no circumstances should you ever give anyone below a three. Also if you have anything negative to say then you should email the person and state it there instead of putting it in the review section.

You just got to know who you are reviewing too and how to do it.

Kate

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I've reviewed your work quite a few times, and was always honest trying to help you get better, just as I would like people to do with me. But I was never rude or hurtful in the way I expressed myself, and people seem to have a problem dealing with an honest answer, unlike you. You usually take it well and sometimes rework things to make them better.

We all have our own formed opinions about our work, and at times we might decide not to change it because of personal reasons or just because we don't fee like it. That is perfectly valid, yet it does not take away any merit from the person that suggested improvements in an aim of helping. None writes perfectly, I can't tell you how many times I've found errors in books, and I am not referring to "print" errors alone, but grammar and composition mistakes. It happens. What better than to have a fellow writer, who's trying as hard as you are to improve each time, pick up whatever we might have missed and point it out for us to be aware of it? Does that make the reviewer a mean person? Because they were trying to help? Of course, if the reviewer insults the person, I agree none has to take that... but being honest should be REWARDED not frowned at or even worse as Kate said, "taken revenge for"

I would like to invite you to read the following article written by Michelle Ross. It provides an insightful view on the issue of the reviews, the kinds of reviews on the cafe, and what is the best way to review. I found it honest and thoughtful, and I am sure many will find it helpful.

Thanks Michelle for letting me post it here :)


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Though I haven't been very active here lately, my experience here at the cafe has been very positive. As with all social networking sites, as it gets larger, there will be more people trying to hack in and disturb things, more idiots coming out of the woodwork to stir things up, and more difficulty in making meaningful connections. That's just the way it is. But I think this particular group has done very well most of the time to keep things productive and useful.

I hope the hacker issue is dealth with now, its sad what a few people with warped minds can do to a community such as this. Maybe a bar on particular HTMl could help combat the likes of this in future.

As for reviews, whenever I do give them, I tend to be on the short and sweet side, as I have a lot to review, and very little time. My big thing in reviewing others work is rhyme: I think poetry should rhyme. Thats my bigoted opinion!!!

My weakness as a writer is spelling and grammer, as is often pointed out to me in reviews. I have athick skin, as all writers should do. You wrok is being posted to be reviewed, not to give you a feel good factor.

OK... Im off to bed for now!

First of all, nice job everybody. Really good work. Second of all, to those of you with "constructive criticism" about my work, save it. You obviously don't know pure, unadulterated GENIUS when you come in contact with it.
-ryan merritt
(the best writer ever)

I'm a big fan of rhyming; but, not all of it is going to rhyme, or maybe not as well as we'd like it to. I don't give a s**t if people like it or not. It (writing) dose make me feel good, well, better, and I just want an HONEST OPINION!! It doesn't necessarily have to be brutal honesty, but honesty nonetheless. Thick skin is good, just don't let it pickle the rest of your organs. And don't be afraid of getting your writing feelings hurt, hell, we need more of that... that might be just the kind of reaction we're all looking for...

I'd argue that reviews can be just as much of a work of art as any other form of writing. Granted, it works in a whole different context and purpose, but it has its own place for creativity, expression, and intelligent thought. But it all depends on how well the reader digested the original piece of work. Therefore, I'd really not hold much weight to an insufficient review; it indicates the reviewer read the material insufficiently.

The reason for using an online writers workshop is to hone our writing skills. I believe that it cannot be done without honing our reading skills as well. The two are intertwined, and cannot be separated. So if a writer expects an intelligent dialouge concerning their work, they should also be prepared to also engage in intelligent dialouge with other writers for their respective works. Otherwise, I'd suggest to go to MySpace or some other online social platform, where the purpose of posting material is set in a broader, more general context.

It is then unfortunate that many reviews have little more than "good job" or "this sucks." Not only does it mean that the writer is short-changed on real tangible feedback, but the reviewer also missed the opportunity to improve their own critical thinking, and in turn their own writing. Without much thought of what works and doesn't work in someone else's material, the reviewer in turn fails to apply those same principles in their writing.

This doesn't mean that the same criteria needs to be applied to every piece of work. Each piece is intrinsically different, and should be evalutated based on the implied goal of the writer; let the bar be raised or lowered accordingly. If someone is clearly trying to be the next Hemingway, then hold that writer to a higher standand. But if someone just wants to express in poetry that they're having a bad day, then critque the output with that in mind.

I, too, prefer writing and reading poetry that rhymes, especially since I see it as more of a challenge to get the point across while keeping an artistic quality to it (it's also easier to recall favorite passages when they have meter!). But rhyming poetry is just one of many, many styles. As long as what art is written isn't an incomplete thought, it is just as beautiful.

Along the lines of critiques: they should be constructive--however else shall we get better? I'd rather not waste my editor's time and my money further down the road when I could have fixed most errors based upon reviews given here.

That's what the hell I'm screaming!! For the most part. ::cool::

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Wait a minute, are you telling me people actually get stalked on here? I never have...
I feel very left out. i can't relate at all. Nobody really talks to me on here...I guess i don't really feel the need to really seek out people either...but damn... my life hasn't even been affected from this site at all. i'm just sayin... ::confused::

and can i just say, i have 88 points and i worked really hard to get 88 points and if you have over 300 i'm really impressed/weirded out.

::cool::

Please No CSS

My apologies for bumping an old threat but I've got another call to arms to issue and it has to do with what is being largely discussed in this post: Reviews. This thread was written back when we had a community and were afraid of losing it. I think we've lost it for the reason's embedded in this thread.

There's such a broad spectrum of talent (and lack of) on this site that it's impossible to sift through the different skill levels. Being honest, most writing will never get published, most amateur writing is bad writing, and most of the writing on this site is amateur writing, therefore most writing on this site SUCKS! But how do you tell that to people who are telling you straight out “tell me if it's bad” and then get mad at you when you tell them it's bad? When I first joined, I could browse stories and read five I really liked within five minutes, not anymore. We've got a big problem on the Cafe, and it's lead to us losing our community.

In case you hadn't noticed, there is NO moderation on this site, Charlie's checked out, so if we want control of our own community, we're going to have to do our own moderating. We have to set our own ethics standards, quality control, and review regulations. We have to label ourselves according to experience so reviewers know what we're looking for in a review. We need a “bash button” so reviewers know who is looking for raw brutally-honest critiques and who is just looking for praise. We need to have a level system that writers place THEMSELVES into that control the caliber of reviews they get and the value of the reviews they give. We need a like it/don't like it survey option on stories as an alternative to reviews or leaving short “i liked it” comments.

What we need is our own version of the “Slackers Pledge” that writers on this site MUST follow or we won't interact with them. This group will make the rules because it's the first and oldest group on the Cafe with the most experience and seniority. If there's any talent left in the Cafe, it's in here. You guys set the groundrules, everyone on the Cafe has to follow them. Send the “Writers Pledge” to everyone in our friends lists and have them forward it to everyone else in their friends list and spread it around. Everyone will sign it and post it in their bio section on their profiles. We don't review anyone who doesn't sign the pledge.

I propose that Val set this weeks challenge as group-drafting the Pledge. Start yelling out ideas!