The Review Club Forum Discussion for Gabe's The Worl..

This is the place to respond to reviews and for further discussion on Gabe's The World Family Organization Chapter 1

Review up, hope you go with the next chapter on your next review week.

Gabe:

I love that you aren't pushing the techy envelop. The story's focus is more important then the gadgets and futuristic pursuits. So that's my vote at least. Bring on the next chapter.

Hope that answers your question,

Julie

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That would be I who made the comment on the tech unless someone else mentioned something. I am in agreeance this should not be, or any story for that mater, some sort of sharper image catalog. Future shop for you Canuk's.(hope thats not an insult.) But at the same time if you want to jump a hundred years in the future you have to beef up/ size down the tech. Now I can see the radios of the resistance working but the only way I can is if since it is so old a technology the authorities no longer monitor it, can't even since none of it is made anymore. Everything is going digital. Look at car radios, syrus and the lot. Another ten or so and quite possibly we wont be using radio waves at all. Hell cell phones are on their way out. You say what? VOIP, voice over ip. Vonage currently has voice over ip that connect to the web via wifi so you can use one of these phones just like a cell throughout the city. It's all free besides the monthly fee. Give it another decade and the coverage and bandwidth will increase until it all is done over the web. TV another 10 to 15 years from now will all be on demand and on the web. Maybe at some distant point on the web only. What you want when you want it. This is already taken place in some degrees in areas that have digital cable. Guess what? We will not be flipping the bill for all these features. Advertisers will be. Here is a link talking about laser TV's.

I'm excited about this because at some distant point in the future you will be able to project a hi definition picture or movie from a cell phone on a wall etc that uses 90% of what your eye can perceive. Just search out laser tv and you will find some info.

I also am of the belief we will not buy pc's in the future. Just a screen or some sort of laser projection. We will rent the services and everything will be stores on the web. Want to play xbox you just navigate to the game you want and play it. It all comes down to bandwidth. It's the reason Microsoft introduced Xbox. To get a computer in the living room. Trust me microsoft is betting on a future where you will
rent from them and no longer buy form them. Google e-paper, Philips Lumalive textile garments. But anyways these are just some ideas to kinda get you to see a little different future.

" From the mouth of the alley, a radio crackled. �I have him. He�s in an alley on the Northeast corner of 32nd and Dolton, requesting back up.� I was thinking this is coming from the agents. If they have headsets on he wouldn't hear the radio right? That is something that came to me after I read the story.

Now I'm just trying to help and advise you to make your story as believable as possible. I like where you are going and already said so in my review. I think the statements you want to make is the meat of the story but it's the details that make the meat worth chewing. That is why I suggested you tone the year back. Make it ten or 15 years, 20 even, from now and you can get by without making such advancements in tech. But a hundred and you will have the sci-fi geeks all over you lol...

Gabe-

Personally, regarding the technological advancements, I'd think it's kind of peripheral to your storyline. In my opinion (empahsis on opinion), predicting future technological advancements can be a bit of a futile thing. We're living in 2007 already, and yet we're still waiting for our jet packs and flying cars. And not that I'm very well read, but I can't think of a single novel that ever predicted the coming of the Internet or the i-Pod. In the book 1984, they're still using pnumatic tubes to send messages. It's been awhile since I've read the book, but I can't recall them using e-mail or the like. So unless it really the technological advancement really serves the storyline as a crucial plot element, I wouldn't really sweat it to invent something just for the sake of placing something in the setting.

Like you said, the emphasis is more on political and religous movements. But I think it's important to make the storyline plausible. You've got some great character development with Cade and Peyton and the different ways that they react to their enviornment rings genuinely. I do think that future environment could use some additional research. Eliminating a bi-partisan structure of the U.S. govenment is a pretty big leap. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but you might want to research some of political science to see how that opposing side might be eliminated...I'm realizing in business school that that would be more difficult than I imagined.

I'm running into that same issue with my series, too, which is why I''m setting aside the Secret Era until I have more time to do additional research...hope all this helps.

"The word "cyberspace" (from cybernetics and space) was coined by science fiction novelist William Gibson in his 1982 story "Burning Chrome" and his 1984 novel Neuromancer." There are plenty of terminologies and futuristic concepts that were thought up by novelists and one day these objects became a reality. I think it was a musician in the 1920's who said music will not be truly reproduced well until a method of recording the sounds could be done without any moving parts. Well today we have the Ipod and a host of digital devices that do just that.

I'm not saying you have to make a big deal about it, no need to write Minority Report, but if you just disregard it completely I think a lot of readers will be taken back from it. A lot of your sci-fi readers are a very fickle bunch and publishers are keen to that. A few years back I started researching sci-fi because I wanted to write it, still do, but over and over I kept coming across the same advice, it boiled down to make your crap plausible and do your research if you want to get published. Gabe, I'm not pointing any fingers just talking about this subject in general. I like your story and your goals even better.


I'm also curious with evangelical Christians and Wahabi extremist slinging so much weird stuff out there and having such a strong political impact, why you feel the need to make this so far in the future anyways? Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all had their impact on society well within the first decade of their induction. Even Hitler cloaked his intentions in the shrouds of Christianity.

A big reason that this is so far in the future is... well there are a few reasons. First, China needs to develop into a world power that could withstand a world war against them. Stem cell research needs to develop from our current time to the point where scientists can do things like fix down syndrom of a baby in the whomb, or cure blindness of a baby in the womb as well. Also, as christianity being the WFO's religion and all but china follows the religion and government it is important to know that a war against the muslim countries and a full conversion to christianity would take a bit of time. In order for this future to be possible it would take a long time.

I also wated to say that there have been tech advancments but not to many along the lines of what we are used to. There are a lot of advancements but I think that we are all forgetting that we are catching up with our science, and just like after T.V we experienced a slow progression of advancement and after laptops are now possible we are not moving all that quickly, the future will continue to see it's share of slow periods. Anthony, you talk about communication and visual effects, your right, the problem is that this isn't future tech, this is just making this crap affordable or accessable. Vonage, and other digital devices are not an advancement just new ways to use the same old technology.

The people that are ruling the world in this story are the same people that wont take medicine for pnuemonia because it's not part of gods plan... so why would technology continue to advance if they won't even take antibiotichs. Just a thought.

Gabe

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See my man you could have said that and ended the whole debate right there from the get go. You gave a reason for there not to be advancements.

Now as far as your other comments. This is just for argumentative sake and nothing to do with your story. I'm in a debating mood since sleep has escaped me.

China already could withstand a world wide war. Why? They have a sweet nuclear arsenal and the largest military in the world. Yep I'm right. "China's standing armed force of some 2.8 million active soldiers in uniform is the largest military force in the world. Approximately 1 million reservists and some 15 million militia back them up" Lot of guns and fire power. Invading that puppy would be hell. Even if you did break through all the military defenses you would still have a gorilla war to fight. DIdn't work out so well for Israel in their last invasion of Lebanon. Not going that great for us in Iraq.

As far as your comment about new ways to just doing the same old things that pretty much what advancement has always been. If you break it down is a mule pulled cart much different from a car? Is a broom any different than a vacuum with rotating brush? Yes there are technical differences but they essentially perform the same task. You talk about us catching up to our sciences, I don't think that is the case. Yes we have periods of advancements throughout history and then we slide backwards for a while but that isn't because humans simply hit a wall. They do but it is economical in its nature and not a lack of human achievements. Deaf people are hearing for the first time with a digital link straight to the brain. I saw a guy just plug up to a stereo and start listening to music. Crazy. People are getting eye transplants and seeing for the first time. UK is working on making a printer that prints skin for burn victims. They think they will be able to print organs but a medical researcher friend informs me it will never happen. Skin is the most they will succeed in. Who knows. Boston acoustics can transmit sound across a laser beam so that only one person will hear it and if you were standing next to him you wouldn't. There are things out there but it cost time and money to bring it to the market. But as far as it slowing down, not by a long shot. Technology has a way of blending seemingly into our lives and we don't know it. I know when I was 18 or 17 there was no public internet but for the life of me I can't imagine life without it.

I'm feeling sleep coming now.

Review you later, Anthony

Gabe - as per our conversation, I'd figured I'd offer a tool that helps me out. When ever a create a society, I generally create a history. Generally I work through each step of the creation of that society.

I thought I'd provide an example. Now this isn't perfect. It may not even be what you want to do. But it might help provide some illumination for what I'm talking about.

2007 - In reaction to the change of control in the Congress in D.C., Josiah Bodsen forms the WFO, an ultra-right wing political/religious group. But with a charming face, a local radio show and a book (The Bible by Bodsen), he wins converts.

2009 - Bodsen Christianity (Bodsenism Doctrine or Bodsenism) grips most of the Pentacostal, Southern Baptists and the more conservative branches of Methodists, Congregationalists and Western and Northern Baptists in the states of CO, ID, WY, AZ, NM, NV, MT, KS, IA, MO, LA and TX. Within two years he has created a major voting block, and united the most radical Protestant religions under one flag.

2012 - Democrats suffer scandal after scandal (possibly set up by Bodsen agents) losing majority control of the congress and the Presidency. Bodsen runs for Senate and wins. Also his stooge, President John Mitchell wins against the Democratic incumbent. The Democrats will never regain the Congress or the Presidency.

2014 - Pandering to anti-muslim sentiments Bodsenian Sen. Orrin Miles starts the American "Morality" hearings in the Senate. These hearing "uncover" deviants within the schools "posing" as teachers. Generally these are anyone with any kind of liberal bent. These people are portrayed as terrorists or terrorist sympatizers by the government. Also by this time, Bosenism has swept through most areas of the religious community preaching a "all-inclusive, multi-denominational" message. Uniting all of the Protestant religions (excepts Mormons) and the charasmatic Catholic churches.

2015 - In light of this "imminent" threat to our children, Bodsen pushes for an amendment to the No Child Left Behind Act, reintroducing a mandatory religious requirement. And eliminating any message supporting Judiasm, strict Catholicism, Mormons and Islam. This is the start of the state religion of Bodsen Christianity. Challenges to the requirement bounce off a now entirely conservative Supreme Court.

2018 - Now dispossed and isolated in the society, a coalition of Mormons, Atheists and Catholics join to form a New Democratic Party. The party does win some votes in UT, ID, WA and OR, but is classified by it's detractors as being against God. Some major leaders within the party are caught in a kiddie porn ring. Others are found to be embezzling from the government. This lends strength to the reeducation project (essentially ghettos outside of major metro areas where dissedents and deviants are seperated and allowed to live on the meagerest of rations)

2020- Sensing an opportunity following the collapse of the New Democratic Party, Bodsen creates a Morality Police (this later becomes the department of Purity). These Police lock the rest of the deviants into ghettos, generally for the safety of society.

2021 - The first Mormon riots break out in the SLC ghetto. Declaring this a state of emergency the President (who has now appointed Bodsen as chief of staff) declares martial law. 2020 is the last year a free election is held in America.

2022 - The Purges start, close to 50 million people are killed (that is 5 times the amount during the Holocaust). In the space of five years, Bodsen has no resistance left in America.

There are a few holes here, but I'm sure you can fill them in. Or do something different. This is just an example of what I mean about a plausible rise to power. Anyways enough from me. Have fun :)

Cameron

Good work Cameron.

wow cam... I think you put a lot of thought into that. I have a some what similar outline I am still developing and you have deffinatly helped me fill in some of my blanks. Thaanks a lot.

Gabe

Gabe - Your definitely welcome. Had a couple other thoughts, what if the government put people in slums so the WOULD riot. Then they'd have an excuse to kill these dissenters with saying that they've rebelled against the one true church. Essentially these people would end up being an example to the other members of the
society that if you stray off of the one true righteous path that you will be treated with kindness, until you do something unforgivable (revolting against the government).

Another thought - when you move onto Bodsen's take over of Europe and Asia you might want them to call in all of the debt and remove all of the American currency from the "corrupt" world market. This would create a massive depression in which Bodsen's agents could step in and start to infiltrate world governments. (Kind of like Germany after the Treaty of Versailles).

Last thought - If your planning on having a world Christian government, you'll have to deal with the Pope at some point. I'd suggest an assasination, along with some kind of economic stranglehold on Vatican City to bring the Catholics in line. Although I'd just want this because I like phrase The Grand Reunification Project.

But these are just ideas :)

Cameron

P.S. On my outline I still didn't deal with the media. You'll probably want to deal with them somehow. I'd suggest dealing with them during the Morality Hearings. If you have anything like that. :)

And I cheated and made a Hitleresque rise to power with a dash of McCarthyism

Gabe - just had a thought. I think your idea for having the slums be populated by those people beaten in some kind of uprising would be great. My suggestion (and it's only that) is perhaps to have the government use them as a cautionary tale. Full on propaganda style. Just a thought.

Cameron

Bill thanks for the review. Most of the things you mentioned are already being worked on. This first chapter was written about a year ago so I have come a long way with my research. in fact some of the sources I'm using are:

Religious Freedom and the Constitution, By Christopher Eisgruber & Lawrence Sager.

The China Callange, By Dana Dillon

Constituntional Law (a law school text book) by Choper, Fallon, Kamsar, and Shiffrin.

I appreciate the numbers you gave me on religious population... the number in my revised piece has already changed.

I am finishing up a year by year timeline that outlines exactly how things took place, and believe me there is very little of Bodsen's rise to power that remains the same.

One thing, because I'm sure you'll read my work again, China (which now occupies The korean pininsula, India, and Pakistan), and Parts of Africa are the only remaining parts of the world that are not part of the WFO. So when you question the assult on China remember that we are not only talking about the good old USA.

Thanks fo rthe review

Gabe

Or the good ole China either :)