The Review Club Forum Discussion for Loekie's Brewin..

This is the place to respond to reviews and for further discussion on Loekie's Brewing Politics.

Oh, and Loekie, I think your use of italics for thoughts is perfectly fine. ::tongue::

-cc

That deserves a phtphtphtpht! :-) And I'll get to your review in a little while.

Between dealing with insane hours at work & fighting a bug, I've been under the radar. But I hope to, over the next day or so, address the great reviews I got. This one is for Bill.

What I appreciate from your reviews is the details you point out. There are times when I read your reviews and groan. Then slap my head. All the points have been duly noted and is on track for a revision over the next little while.

As to the dialogue, I see your point. I'm still struggling with giving it a old-world feel without making it wooden. I don't want my fantasy to feel like today and now. For references I go back to old authors, like Shelley, Bryon, etc. I'm trying to get a feel of their cadence and flow. And hopefully incorporate that. Especially since I feel funky words, magic and dragons don't make the fantasy. If the dialogue doesn't work, the reader will not get caught up in my world.

Now onto Gabe...

You mention:
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But I do when he finds Einion's report. His actual words aren't important but what I am trying to show is Froech outplayed Medyr in the meeting.

Onto the information dump. You and some others point this out. I can see that. The first section is Sedanta (the mad king), his death and the aftermath. The next section is an interlude showing the start of the civil war. This section, and this chapter brings the reader into current time.

I wanted to let the reader know the civil war is still on and the rumblings for a republic is getting louder. Reading it out of context could be part of the problem.

At the same time, I see that maybe there is too much stuff for one chapter. The focus is to bring in one of the "bad" guys and show what he is up to. And to show Medyr looks upon life like a game. Moving pieces on a game board. The side trip into the island politics does take away from that focus.

Something for me to think about.

Dear Loekie,

I read your "Birthday" when it was up, though I was not assigned to write a review. I thought that was a wonderful piece, and that the language, the dialogue, were spot-on perfect. You create a very different world there.

I hesitate to use such comparisons, but I was reminded of how the Planet of the Apes characters spoke, in their formal way, with their unusual cadences and soft tones. If your whole book sounded like Birthday I think you would have a real winner. What a challenge to make English sound like otherworlders' language that is eloquent.

Also, it is ever a wonder how the novel's contents will play when we finally sit down and read it in a week, instead of by the piece. I think politics must be handled in some depth if it is important to the story; the reader will have to understand it. No writer better handles politics than James Clavell, and I would suggest Shogun, Taipan, Gaijin, any one of these as great show in handling political intrigue.

I'll keep trying. Actually, I didn't realize you were not part of the reading list. Well then I really appreciate you taking your time.

And about Shogun, you are so right. I knew very little of Japan at that time and he pulled me right in. And it didn't feel like a history lesson aka James Mitchener.

Now onto Anthony. First thanks for the little sticky points. As with Bill, these are invaluable for my revision.

As to Q-dog. I can see Keudawg coming out that way. I'm not attached to the name, but it is a legit Celtic name. But that comment did make me stop and think. Having just finished Steven King's On Writing, he shows a revision he did about a name. He brought up a good point about the length of the name and if it could be pronounced.

The volumes will come with a pronunciation guide but many may not go to it, to check the proper way of saying the name. A good point which I need to think about. Thanks.

The same goes for things like cycle. There will be a glossary. I think, from now on, I fill give a lead in to each piece so things like cycle being a year, a turn being a month should not be a problem.

I can understand, since old world fantasy is not your thing, it is tough to give the piece a good review. I suppose that is part of the "problem" with a review group. We all have genres which doesn't always mesh with the other reviewers. There is some stuff here which isn't my cup of tea and I find it difficult to give a proper review at times.

Finally, you point out the same things as Gabe about the information overload. That is something I have to work on.

As to "information overload," I think this is very hard to determine without experiencing the full context of the book.

As to having a key. My first novel I made a key, then labored over whether I would want to include it if an agent wanted a manuscript and decided it might be a real turnoff for agents looking for "accessibe" material.

I could tell easily from the context that a cycle is a year.

As to names, I agree with King (liked his book on writing, read it twice) that they should never be so difficult to pronounce that readers' minds stop at the sight of the name. I had no trouble with your names.

Thanks, Bill.

It is a fine line I walk, especially since some of the name are old Celtic names and some are quite long.

As to the key, I suppose it depends on what you are writing. One of the biggest mistakes Robert Jordan did , in his Wheel of Time series, was not have a decent glossary at the end of each book. So characters from Book 2 would show up in Book 6 but by then I would have forgotten them. And there was nothing in the appendix to jog my memory. A sprawling fantasy epic in a made-up world needs an appendix.

But much I have as back ground will never be in the main appendix for each volume. A good example is a philosophy called Anail. This is the main philosophy those in the Order, Blood & Stone, etc. follow. It is based on Zen Buddhism. But details on what a koan is, or how to clear the mind, etc. etc. will not be in the appendix. That is just for me.

What the reader will need is how to pronounce the names, a list of names and commonly used words. I hope that some, like cycle, would be self-evident but that ain't gonna happen, at times.

Ya know I didn't know if you were using real names or making them up. I strongly dislike it when people make them up. I'm glad you are using Celtic names, I think it makes it so much easier for people to follow.

This is off topic but how did you like Steven King's On Writing? I just ordered a copy over the weekend after coming across a good review of it. Does it help any?

It did, up to a point. It is more a memoir but he does bring up some good points to consider.

In the end, he does repeat much of The Elements of Style by Strunk and White and Beyond Style by Gary Provost, which are my little bibles I keep going back to.

It is an easy read and brings up salient points to consider. So it does not read like a text book or how to guide. It gave me a little food for thought, so it was worth the money, even with the exchange rate :-)

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Good to know. The Elements of Style is another book I ordered also. Hopefully I'll find both of them useful. I haven't heard of Beyond Style. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. YOu mention something about an exchange rate where are you located?

Never Mind, Canada :)

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pftpftpftpftpft back at ya, Loekie. It's so much fun to tease you. ;-)

-cc

Be careful, cc. I might just start to pout and stomp my feet :-)

And I highly recommend The Elements of Style. It is clear, concise and I take it with my almost anywhere without getting a hernia. I also recommend Beyond Style by Gary Provost. He focuses on things like form, tone, pacing, tension, etc. etc. What I liked about the book is he gives before and after examples, so you can see how to use this points.

And yeah, I'm Canadian. Just don't hold it against me :-)