The Review Club Forum Discussion for Jeff's Good Gra..

Originally posted by Bullgooseloon
Alright, Chrissie, I hope you want to talk. I admit to looking forward to your review because of your previous job, so obviously this isn't what I had hoped for. THanks for your honesty, now let's argue, a bit, okay? Just for fun? We'll still be friends. I've got your review open and I'm going down paragraph by paragraph.}

There is never any need to argue. I messaged you too about this. This is YOUR piece. Not mine. And I'm hoping we'll still be friends you say that now but if you really want to hit on certain things back and forth with me it will come down to how many hits each of us can take. :)

{I'm glad you mentioned you didn't connect in the very beginning. It makes the rest easier to swallow and it becomes obvious very quickly.}

Sorry. I don't do second POV well and poems at the beginning, unless it goes on a precursory page, I think have no business smack at the front of the lie. Just my humbled opinion.

{It seems POV is the great argument of this story. I'm going to have to think about it. I would think my character sees this as an extreme circumstance. He lives with her in his mind so much, he speaks to her as if she's there. Maybe overly sentimental, but it's how this character wants to think.}

You're trying to hard to write. It's not natural.

{I don't like that paragraph about the eyebrow raise, either, and neither do most people, so it will be cut or changed.}

If you don't like it, change it. Other people don't like who cares. It's all about what you like.

{If the poem doesn't hit you as true to the piece then we simply don't dance, baby. Fact of life. The rules of attraction and such.}

The poem hit me all right, it had nothing to do with the laws of attraction though. ;P

{The "I scratch" line, I don't know. A ton of people have read this piece through it's revolutions and that line has been there since the beginning. I think most people see him scratch his nose or face without thinking about it. Doesn't this call back to putting "faith in your reader"? I think I ask a lot of anyone that wants to read my story and trust that they'll have my character scratch where he should. And hell, if they see him scratch his butt, then his butt shall be scratched. }

I scratch --- fine leave out detail. I don't care. This is one of those times the whole line is meaningless.

{We'd serve them. Restaurant speak. I say it a thousand times a day. We'd give them food. I like the fact it can be taken another way, because people speak that way, but I think you'd be in the minority assuming he meant we'd cook up some frat boys and put them on the line (also restaurant speak).}

This is obviously a line that is written to play to your audience. I've never worked in a resturant. I have no idea how people talk. So if you want to keep it, and play to "those select few" who actually do know the lingo and leave the rest in the dark. Fine. You do that.

{Dialogue tags. I agree they can get heavy, quickly, but all dialogue tags? Seems ridiculous. There is a little bit of a conversational tone in this story, and sit and listen to anyone speak and hear the tags in their speech. (and she said to me, so then I said ...) You actually list almost every tag I use and most of them aren't connected to quotes but portrayed as action. Maybe publishing companies do want all tags cut, but I think that's a silly business move some muckity-muck decided in a board room and the pendulum will swing back. Looking at the horseshit a great many of the companies regularly poop out, I refuse to give all the power of taste and style to them. They have enough, already.}

Dialogues are RESERVED for intense moments. You don't have to get it. You don't have to use it. Not all dialogue tags need abadoning. Do what is most comfortable for you.

{Please don't take this as an insult or an attempt to feel better about the review, but I get the feeling you only read the first couple of paragraphs? I know you say you can see mistakes a writer makes right away, but I would still think there'd be many things you'd want to mention later in the story that you never imply even looking at. I only bring it up because if it is true, I'd rather you were honest and told me it wasn't good enough for you to finish and save yourself the time needed for the thought-provoking review you gave me. Two sentences: not my style. Sorry, and good luck. I'm really not trying to be a smartass, here, so please don't get angry at that statement. It's just the feeling I get and I'm kind of a heart-on-my-sleeve sorta' fella. I do appreciate what you're saying and it's nice to get the blood boiling early in the day, isn't it?}

I take that for what it is, hurt feelings. Kudos to you. You've hurt mine too. I am sick of being accussed of not reading the piece all the way through. I can't offer nits like everyone else when the writing isn't solid. Sorry. The little things just aren't as important as the big things.


{In what way should I "clean up the prose"? If you mean the sentence fragments, those are on purpose. Is there something else? We really didn't hit it off, did we? I think this line insulted me, a bit, I have to admit. I could re-word it to "everything you are doing is wrong". That's not true. Even if I sit in every slush pile in the world, I've got some folks that appreciate what I'm saying and how I say it, and they are important people, to me. }

I NEVER SAID YOU ARE DOING EVERYTHING WRONG!!!!!! DON"T YOU DARE ACCUSE ME OF THAT! I believe in every writer. I believe they all can make it if they truly want it. I WOULD NEVER ASSUME THE WORST IN PEOPLE! We are all on different levels. Some people are further up the ladder than others, but that doesn't mean you haven't been climbing. That doesn't make your successes are any less endearing. You do have people appreciative of the things you say, I'm one of them. As for your prose, I would focus less on trying to make them sound "like a writer writing" and make them more endearing. Give us something "real" not fake and flowery to grab onto.

{I re-iterate things in the same paragraph on purpose, for effect, and because I believe this character obsesses in such a way, and I use the same descriptive to make that clear. Once again, no dancing for Jeff and Chrissie. Do you like board games?}

ummm....okay No dancing for me. I dont' get this part.

{Fundamentals. Eek. A pain in my heart.}

I forgot this was why I never joined these things. Thanks for reminding me. :)

{Listen, Chrissie, I want to say I have a great deal of respect for your opinion. I looked over some of your work and I really liked some moments in them and how could I not respect your opinion with your previous job?}

You don't like what I had to say. Fine. Don't sugar it up. Who cares what jobs I've had, who cares who my parents are, who cares I have a black rotty/lab those things don't matter. My review didn't work for you. I'm sorry.

{ But I also like how my writing has evolved and I don't think I'd ever want it to evolve towards what you want.}

WOOO! Back up. I offered my opinion. It is up to you to take it or leave it. I don't care what your writing evolves too. You don't have to learn anything to make me happy. The only thing I WANT is for ME to be published. That's it. My wants have nothing to do with you. Sorry. I offer opinions, just like everyone else. YOu pick and choose who you're going to listen to, but the ultimate result betters YOUR SKILL/ YOUR WANTS. Not mine.

{If it means I won't get publised, than I'll always struggle.}
Than should be then. :) Sorry couldn't resist. :)
I have no control on your future publishing dates. I've said it before and I will say it again. Everyone learns at their own pace. You pick the own that is best for you.

{So be it, I must remain true to myself, love. So, we must part ways, I fear. Thanks, really, it felt good to talk it out and explain to myself what I want. I hope you reply and we can argue in a friendly and productive way. That was my only intent, really.