Lonely Writers Blog Group Forum Interesting Review

I just recieved a very interesting review for my story Up in Smoke.  I don't agree with all of it, but it definitely left me with some questions.  Primarely, why would someone think they can grade elements of a story?  I think the glory of writing is that it's free and by grading aspects, that just kind of limits the writer.  Anyways, it was for a contest and I entered so I'm not complaining.  So here goes (the review is bold, my thoughts are in italic)

Title Score (10): __8___
Comments
The title fits very well after finishing the story and knowing what it is about, and it is even pretty catchy before the read.

Opening Paragraph (10): __5__
Comments
The first sentence was very intriguing, and caught my attention right away. It lost its momentum in the following lines, however, since nothing "horrific" occurred (or was the cause of the smoke). Also, you had a few verb tense errors that throw off the flow.

Characterization (10): __7___
Comments
Not bad! Your characters had good motivation (going after 'the high,' etc.), and were decently developed throughout the story. I would have liked a bit more by way of Raz.
How much characterization is needed for a short story?  Not that I wouldn't like to know more about Raz, but I think the fact that he kills people just to skin them and smoke them gives enough of what needs to be known about him.
Plot (10): __7___
Comments
Very original, excellent idea � just not very believable. The major problem I had with the plot was the skin comparison to the African frogs. Those frogs actually secrete a hypnotic compound while human skin does not. I'm not exactly sure what the best course of action would be to correct this... Of course, it is fiction...
Alright, this is just a personal gripe and not some huge thought provoking moment.  This is fiction.  It bothers me when people say "oh well that's not believable" in a fiction story.  Against just a personal gripe.

Setting (10): __5___
Comments
A few more details, character interaction with setting (i.e. the basement), would work wonders with this story.
This is the part that really made me think and really dug under my skin.  I got a 5 on setting because there asn't enough of it.  Why do I need to include more setting?  It's a 2300 word short story.  The purpose is what's happening, not where it's happening.  So my question is.  Is setting ALWAYS that important?  You get that these two boys are sitting in a living room, one's sitting in a large papasan chair, the other a large recliner and they're passing a joint back and forth over the coffee table, then they go to the basement.  In this story the setting plays absolutly no roll, so should I include more about it?  Wouldn't that just be a huge waste of words?  I personally don't think all stories need a setting to set up atmosphere, and I think too much setting destroys a story; where to draw the line?

Other Genre Elements (10): __4___
Comments
This category is hard to score highly in, and not many do. I really appreciated the entrapment subtleties, the story was definitely dramatic, you mentioned a relationship, etc. So for the context of the story, I think this was good.

Horror Elements (20): __10___
Comments
It seems many people can relate to your antagonist (by the comments you've received), which is very good. This is a well done psychological piece, but I would have liked to have seen a bit more with use of horror elements. Your gore was underused, and what was included was a bit over the top, and came out a little cheesy.
This goes to a question I asked a long time ago: "What is Horror?"  Do I need a ghost?  a vampire?  a monster?  Horror is different to everyone.  Some people are scared of spiders, others to things that go bump in the night, and even still some are scared of the "normal" person next door.  Is horror the build up?  or is it the punchline?  Do you need gore for it to be horror?  I guess this person thinks so because my gore is underused, however, anymore and the story would have been ruined.  I would have lost the pyschological aspect of the story, and that's the aspect that scares me the most.

Overall Appeal (20): __16___
Comments
Overall I highly enjoyed this story, and thought you did very well. Creative and individual, I eagerly await more from you. I did find the story a bit predictable � any way you could make it less obvious? � and I would suggest a read through to correct the grammar stuff.
Another personal gripe.  It's a 2300 word story.  Sure it's predictable, it's over as soon as  you start reading it. 

David, I agree with you that what IS horror is really an individual interpretation. I dont think you need to chop off heads and rip out hearts for it to be 'real' horror.

See, this is what bugs me about reviews like this one. Some people think they are an expert on everything. But one person really cannot speak for a million others. What ten people might hate, 100 might love, and 50 might kinda like.

I think we, as writers, should be very proud of everything we create. Not everyone has the ability, or the courage, to write.

You know, now that you raise question to that sort of review type, I might just second that story. It is all a matter of an opinion. Of course, I might spend more time on justifying why I would rate it a certain way.

Fiddle diddle de.

Horror IS different for each person. Mostly, horror is about phobias. Spiders, snakes, isolation, *Squirrels*, etc. (ok, maybe not Squirrels... unless if I gotten a "Nazi propaganda with a regime of all kinds of squirrels in uniform with the arm raised. THat is what I call nuts all over. It must be a strike at the acorn factory.")

Its about fear.

Thats my two cents.

You know, we have this conversation all the time in my house, me my girls and Rob.  I think there is a BIG difference between horror and gore, and they don't always go together.  I guess it is a matter of personal taste.  But just because a story has a lot of blood, gore, and guts, does not make it a horror story.  I guess he wouldn't like my writing then.  I write dark, and most of the time there is no gore in them, so does that mean they are not horror?  Not in my view, but I guess there are some who would disagree with that view, and they have that right.     

It is a story of fiction, so why does it have to be believable?  I don't think it needs to be perfect when you call it fiction.  The whole idea of fiction is that it isn't real, and it is your own imagination that creates it. 

And who in the hell cares if the human skin doesn't have the same effect as it does in the story?  Is anyone ever going to be sick enough to even try it?  I mean, come on!  It's a work of fiction. 

I liked the story, and I know others did too, and most of the review is actually done well.  It's just a shame the reviewer didn't get the whole thing.

Ok, I couldn't use the same critera. I cannot think along a rigid path like that.

I still reviewed.

Thanks for the review!  I do have one small question.  I can kind of understand about the scenery, however, I don't feel that adding any more scenery would have been relevent to the story.  I guess I could have said something like "Derik watched as the colors of the Bob Marley poster behind Raz began to twirl together." 

Anyways, my question is:  You mention that there wasn't a lot of "horror" feel to it and that labeling it horror was a bit misleading.  What is a horror feel for you?

I am not entirely sure, to be honest.
My understanding of what "Horror" seems to be is this: there is a level of a certain kind of tension that is not as pronounced as in other genres. Something in dealing with fear. I admit that I don't have much knowledge on writing Horror, and most of the knowledge I have is based on human psyche and an unearthed possibility of something is wrong (but there isn't a word to label it). In your story, when I read it, I pictured the two all drugged up, since they "were" smoking their brains out. This sort of situation doesn't speak much for horror, or hints a forboding nature. I would picture this as a carefree situation-a place where the most serious of things (even the most screwed up of things) seem to be a stew of humor. Though Raz was serious, he "seemed to kid" with Derek for a second. There wasn't as pronounced form of psychological struggle, but of course, with a couple of hits on a drug--why would someone find the seriousness to be a threat?

Something along those lines.

I kinda liked that about the story.  You're not in a lot of suspense for too long before Derik dies.  Should I maybe draw that part out more?  I wanted it to be a bit more laid back, as it is two guys getting high, but still end in a gruesome way.  I didn't want a lot of suspense, but I don't want it to be so laid back that people 1) loose interest or 2) don't get the horror aspect of it.

I dont think you need to change anything David. That story is awesome!!! I added it to my favorites!

I've chatted briefly before with the person that left that critique, and that person is a nice person....Im thinking he probably wanted to be helpful and not obnoxious. I've gotten detailed reviews like that and while it can be annoying, it depends on the "tone". you know?

Have you talked to this person? I dont see how anyone would pick apart that story--like I said, I loved it. But you know, Im not a technical expert or one to give advice on structure and such...I just write for the love of it!

FantasyFairy, you pointed out a excellent point----Its FICTION! It doesnt have to be perfect and backed up with facts and such...imagine if that were the case...Fiction/Horror..none of it would exist--or be any fun to read!!!!!!!!!

I'm not bitter about the review.  I did have a few personal qualms, but it just made me think a bit.  I don't think anyone should put any writing on a numbered scale because writing is different for everyone.  2 people can read the exact same story and see it two very different ways. 

However, I will be changing a bit of the story.  It does have some typos and grammar issues that need to be fixed up and I might add a little more to the setting.

I tried to put your story in a numerical scale.
 But words defy numbers. Thoughts cannot be boiled into grades or points.

It was just unique.

I agree...I don't get the numbers as a way of rating the story??

 

Put it this way,

If you use a numerical approach to a piece, you are mostly reflecting on your opinion.
This number appproach can possibly be biased, a sure way of misleading.

There is a use for the method though.

You can use the approach as a guide to opinion.

This is what the scores would be if I were to rate his story:
IF I were to use that structure previously posted.

Title: 9    Matches generally. There might be a more accurate title
Opening Paragraph: 6 First paragraph is catchy enough. The other sentences are not as engaging, or as stellar as it could be.
Characterization: 8 Lack of information on friend. Some threads have to be inferred.
Plot: 8  highly original, yet predictable.
Setting: 5 Not enough details to make the reader picture the entire surrounding.
Other genre elements: 5 Lack of seriousness makes the piece a bit less tense. That's accepting.
Horror elements: 12 Some lacking in the psychological department. A little creepy however.
Overall Appeal: 16

Practically, this is when the information is boiled down.

The only way someone could accurately judge in this way, would be to know exactly every subgenre and the mainstream genre of the subject. The piece would also have to be specifying what category or "hybrid" the piece is associated with.
 So its safe to say that this person would either need to know how the internal clockwork works in all the subgenres or have read an ungodly, rediculious amount of books in order to do so.
In other words, I highly doubt there is such a person who could come up with such a way. Unless, of course... if these people either absorb books through their fingertips, a super prodigy (get this person's genetics), or immortal.

I could rant on and on, but I will save the eye strain for ya'.
Simply don't do it. Judge in a different way.


These sorts of things a judge should keep in mind.
======== 
Grasp at Grammar and Conventions
Originality
Gripping Plotline
Original, vivid language
Structure
multiple personalities
Sense of Closure
Point-of-View
Show-instead of Tell
Suspense
"Story vs. reality"
==
 Look at the inner clockwork of the piece. If the skill sets that are shown are apparent and highly effective, this is likely to show an increase in ranking. Apply that to just about anything else. Of course, there are exceptions.....

Just my two cents in here. I absolutely hate it when someone leaves a long review such as this making themselves out to be an 'expert' in it. For one - you all are quite correct in saying that horror is different for everyone. To me - i f it has spiders in it - it's horror LOL. But anyhoo...fiction is just that - fiction. It's your imagination and whose imagination is always realistic and believable?

Sorry. I think the story was great and I believe I said so in my review :-) I don't touch anyone else's grammar and spelling in a review unless it's so bad I can hardly understand the story - then I just don't read it. But I think when one reviews like this (rating like the above) it kind of makes me think they didn't get into the story, but read it and focused more on the mistakes and whatnot than the story line.

"I absolutely hate it when someone leaves a long review such as this making themselves out to be an 'expert' in it"

 I don't claim to be an expert. I am trying to be realistic, or trying to reason that there are no experts. You might want to be a little more specific.
Spiders?
I am trying to write a short story revolving around them. So far, not far...
I am still hindered by the advice "beginnings must result in conflict". Because of that, I never get much done in the writing category. 

--or if you are referring to the list I mentioned near the end, these sorts of things professionals look for. Publications, editors and the like. I am NOT an expert on such, but I try to recognize whether if some things are apparent. If I didn't read books on writing, I wouldn't have listed those critera (bc I won't know them).

of course, this much is to my understanding.

Realistic is great - but again, there are so many differing writing styles and genres. What one might not like many others may love. I just don't agree in someone on here giving reviews and rating...only because some of those people (noone in here that I've seen) who leave these lengthy - rather rude - reviews are ones who can't put a story together no matter what. Know what I'm saying? If you make good points in the review, that's one thing. But I had one person review the prologue to one of my books and basically tear it apart because he didn't understand that it was part of a whole story. Hence my wondering if when someone leaves such a lengthy review - do they actually read the story? I know this guy didn't or else he wouldn't have informed me I needed to add more information to some parts...

Sorry - my brain's on vacation this month and - oh nevermind.

Basically, what I am saying is that people need to be more constructive rather than destructive. If you can do that rating type review without tearing a story all apart - then go for it. :-)