Faith & Spirituality Without The Bs Forum Mankind Without God

New question: If you had indisputable proof that God did not exist (in any form), would that make life easier, or harder?

If you had to start everyday knowing that when you die, there is no afterlife, would you really value a human life any more (than you do now)? Especially your own? What about others? Would the frailty of mortality cause you to cheerish each breath more dearly than the last, or would it be open season on morality. Would that last thing holding you back from cheating, robbing, raping, and killing, be removed if you had no faith? Or would we be better off? Would the Holy Wars actually have been averted had there been no religion? What about the holocaust? Or would other factors that differentiate the world's population lead to the same effects? Without the simplest belief in karma, would you think twice about cheating on your wife, or killing your worst enemy? Of course there would still be laws, but then who would say what "moral" really is, without thought of a higher being? How would you act if there were no promise of heaven, and no threat of hell? Just some things to think about. I'm curious what others might think. Hopefully an Atheist will happen upon this, and share his or her view.

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Saying that God does not exist, does not automatically mean that there is no afterlife. I was an atheist at one point, and although I did not believe in a God, I did believe in an afterlife. Mostly because of all the haunted apartments my older sister lived in when she was away at college.

But if there was no God, no afterlife, and this was it then the world would be a lot different, but yet still the same. Mankind seems to need some greater purpose. Religion and the belief in some higher power has been around for ages. That makes it so hard to say exactly how we would act. If religion never existed, then neither would the age of reason or thought.

If there was indisputable evidence that came out today that God did not exist, I guarantee you people would still try to refute it. Just like the whole issue with evolution. There's pretty good evidence that man came from monkey, but people still refute it because it contradicts the bible.

Somehow, humanity will still revert to using myths or constructing some sort of philosophical device to explain existence. From various schools of thought, there would spring conflicting views that would replace religious turmoil. We are destined to always fight amongst ourselves, as we have not proven that we can exist without conflict. Ever since there has been recorded history, there has been some sort of war between humans on this planet. It is the most constant state we know. ::cry::

If there was indisputable evidence that God existed, he would cease to exist. In the Bible, (I'm not sure what passage exactly), it says that God is faith, and without faith, he is nothing. With indisputable evidence of his existence, faith becomes fact, and God ceases to be God. (This applies to the Christian God, of course...I know little about other religions).

Like Mr. Berry said, Man will find a way to destroy each other regardless. There is a theory I read about in Eagleton's "Literary Theory" that says literature took the place (or at least aided) as a system of control when religion began to decline in England in the 17th century. It was supposedly used to distract the masses in the same way Hollywood distracts us today. I think the saying back then was something like, "Give them books before they demand equal rights" or something crazy like that.

i've often thought of this subject but for different reasons. i began pondering "eternity" at a very young age. i came to realize that the thought of nothingness was far scarier than any depiction of hell. but i didn't find that my views on morality changed when thinking in this construct. my allegiance to the laws is rooted in my belief in their neutralizing abilities. in other words, they make life easier by outlining the basic rules. so, i don't believe that the absence of God would affect my morality as it's not based on any allegiance to Him.

i am also interested in the nature of mankind and have therefore given great thought to your question of the relationship between violence and religion. i'm of the belief that there would still be "religious" wars if there was no religion. evil acts perpetrated in the name of religion are often motivated by greed/lust/fear, the same things that motivate all evil acts. religion provides shelter in the form of an excuse or justification for those acts. society has proven that it will go to extraordinary lengths to ensure that it's basely-motivated acts are at least partly justified by a moral cause or purpose. therefore, i think that we would be in the same situation but discussing a different construct.

I think that life without that expectation afterwards, wouldn't be a fullfilled life. My father died for 20 seconds a few years ago, and he said that 20 seconds felt like 15 minutes....and he could remember standing there staring at a door with a bright light coming out from behind it.....and he could hear many familiar voices from behind the door. But, he didn't walk for the door even though he was tempted to, because a voice told him "Go back for now".

*shrugs* Some may think that's crazy.....

I may be a lil off the subject, but I think that one should never completely lose faith. You may just get a second chance if you believe.

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Isn't it possible that this what religion will give for an easy answer? Define God as faith and it serves two purposes - that serves the organized religion.

1. The religion is advocating and promoting faith as the end-be-all. This avoids them coming up against and having to dispute any logical arguments or doubts, with logic. They have told you all you need is faith. This hurts not only the individual but the religion. Neither is allowed to grow through serious thoughtful inquiry.

2. There is an easy answer for why you should don't question whether God exists or not. You don't have to wonder where the proof is or is not. I think God would want an individual to search , to wonder, to question, and then to accept God on his or her own terms by thoughtful serious inquiry. (This reminds me of C.S. Lewis whose lifelong inquiry into the nature of God is fascinating to me, and I think admirable. HE questioned, he doubted, he was an atheist at one point, and then he was a believer, but it was his own path he took. And to be honest, God was probably pleased that he got their on his own.

Anyways, I just wanted to throw this opposing POV out there.

It is possible that God can not exist without faith. I mean how can something be real to you that you have no faith in?

But are there things that are real, that we do not have faith in, but we recognize that they do exist?

For me, maybe the current administration in the U.S.A (LOL) Its real but I dont have faith in it!

But if the people don't have faith in democracy, can it work? And if can not work, is it really democracy?

Thanks, M.Fox. You have given me something to think about. ::smile::

I haven't have said that is why there has and never will be world peace. No one has any faith in its existence. No one can envision it. If something can not be imagined, how can it be created?

As humans we have always imagined deities and afterlives. I think because we are afraid of death, afraid our possible mortality. That we just end. We can not imagine that (or we do not want to) so we imagine something else more comfortable.

Which is funny cause all around us in nature, and in the universe, we are surrounded by the fact that everything ends at some point.

I'm not an atheist, but I'm an agnostic. A former born-again Christian (for 28 years).

If there was indisputable proof that God did not exist, there would be no need to have religious-based, religious-enforced rules, the kind that we see today, that keep humanity in an intellectual prison. No more Taliban, no more jihads or crusades, no more holier-than-thou, no more false rules based on what people think their god wants or dictates. No more killing in the name of Allah. More more killing because of disrespect to the prophet.

And this doesn't mean a descent into anarchy. Atheists and agnostics of today aren't a community of liars, thieves, murders, etc. In fact...probably a large number of hardened criminals in jail and on death row actually believe in God.

The golden rule would still stand...because it is based on mutual good treatment of our fellow humans. "Do unto others that which you would want them to do unto you". You don't need a religion to abide by that precept.

Even dumb animals behave in a fashion what is mutually beneficial. Even between species. (that is, if you aren't considered to be the next item for dinner).

When I left my faith...the universe became very open and wide to me. The old box that held God seemed so tiny and constricting. I realized there was life outside of my religion. I realized that the rest of humanity was not simply sliding into the lake of fire.

If humans only do good because they fear hellfire, than I don't think they are very good humans.

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You make some good points, but don't forget that animals also kill in order to establish dominance, such as the alpha male wolf, and for territory, such a several other animals that hunt in packs and prides. Lions, wolves, etc. If we abide only by the laws of nature, and take a survival of the fittest type attitude, there might be a few less people on earth. Of course, these(dominance and territory) are the exact reasons (real reasons that is) for any war I can think of. Aside for oil that is!