Artemon Forum Group Discussions (pt. 1)

((just thought that this was a relevant conversation we were having in this private msg))

cool...check out the new description i put up...i used to have a paragraph or so on the meaning of the name but couldn't find it LoL... I've used the name with other online groups. Hey let's move this conversation to the group forum...it would be very appropriate there...what say ye?


Previous Message:
Re: Re: Re: You've Been Invited to Join The Group Artemon!, from Derrek Wesley Steven Gaspard, June 21, 2007 6:35 PM

I have a group with the focus around christian writing. Some sort of central theme would probably be helpful.
But if your current method is working out go with that. Whats the name mean?


Previous Message:
Re: Re: You've Been Invited to Join The Group Artemon!, from Ronnie Killingsworth, June 21, 2007 4:38 PM

not real sure yet...i'd like for it to grow for sure...ya know get to know one another a little better, etc. etc..

what goals do you suggest?

Previous Message:
Re: You've Been Invited to Join The Group Artemon!, from Derrek Wesley Steven Gaspard, June 20, 2007 6:31 PM

Hey Ron. :)

Whats your goals for the group?

Good Ol Wiki����.
Artemon (fl. ca. 230 AD), a prominent Christian teacher in Rome, who held Adoptionist, or Nontrinitarian views, about whose life little is known for certain. He is mentioned as the leader of an nontrinitarian sect at Rome in the third century. He is spoken of by Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., V.28) as the forerunner of Paul of Samosata, an opinion confirmed by the acts of a council held at Antioch in 264, which connect the two names as united in mutual communion and support. Eusebius and Theodoret (Haer. Fab., II,4; V,2) describe his teaching as a denial of Christ's divinity and an assertion that he was a mere man, the falsification of Scripture, and an appeal to tradition in support of his errors. Both authors mention refutations: Eusebius an untitled work, Theodoret one known as The Little Labyrinth, which has been attributed to a Roman priest named Caius, and more recently to Hippolytus of Rome, the supposed author of the Philosophoumena.
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Artemidorus Daldianus or Ephesius was a professional diviner and author known for an extant five-volume Greek work Oneirocritica, (English: The Interpretation of Dreams). Artemidorus was surnamed Ephesius, from Ephesus, on the west coast of Asia Minor, but was also called Daldianus, from his mother's native city, Daldis in Lycia. He lived in the second century.
According to Artemidorus, the material for his work was gathered during lengthy travels through Greece, Italy and Asia, from diviners of high and low station. Another major source were the writings of Artemidorus' predecessors, sixteen of whom he cites by name. It is clear he built on a rich written tradition, now otherwise lost. Artemidorus' method is, at root, analogical. He writes that dream interpretation is "nothing other that the juxtaposition of similarities" (2.25). But like other types of Greek divination, including astrology, celestial divination and pallomancy, Greek dream divination (Oneiromancy) became exceedingly complex, a given dream subject to a number of interpretations depending on secondary considerations, such as the age, sex and status of the dreamer. At other times, subtle distinctions within the dream itself are significant. In a particularly memorable passage, Artemidorus expounds upon the meaning of dreams involving sex with one's mother:
"The case of one's mother is both complex and manifold and admits of many different interpretations�a thing not all dream interpreters have realized. The fact is that the mere act of intercourse by itself is not enough to show what is portended. Rather, the manner of the embraces and the various positions of the bodies indicate different outcomes." (Trans. Robert J. White)
There follows a lengthy and minute recitation of the divinatory significance of enjoying one's mother in various sexual positions.
The first three books of the Oneirocritica are dedicated to one Cassius Maximus and were intended to serve as a detailed introduction for both diviners and the general public. Books four and five were written for Artemidorus' son, also Artemidorus, to give him a leg-up on competitors, and Artemidorus cautions him about making copies.
According to the Suda (Alpha 4025), Artemidorus also penned a Oeonoscopica (Interpretation of Birds) and the Chiroscopica (Palmistry), but neither has survived, and the authorship is discounted. In the Oneirocritica Artemidorus displays a hostile attitude to palmistry.
Among the authors Artemidorus cites are Antiphon (possibly the same as Antiphon the Sophist), Aristander of Telmessus, Demetrius of Phalerum, Alexander of Myndus in Caria, and Artemon of Miletus. The fragments of these authors, from Artemidorus and other sources, were collected by Del Corno in his Graecorum de re onirocritica scriptorum reliquiae (1969).
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Artemidorus Daldianus or Ephesius was a professional diviner and author known for an extant five-volume Greek work Oneirocritica, (English: The Interpretation of Dreams). Artemidorus was surnamed Ephesius, from Ephesus, on the west coast of Asia Minor, but was also called Daldianus, from his mother's native city, Daldis in Lycia. He lived in the second century AD.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
According to Artemidorus, the material for his work was gathered during lengthy travels through Greece, Italy and Asia, from diviners of high and low station. Another major source were the writings of Artemidorus' precedessors, sixteen of whom he cites by name. It is clear he built on a rich written tradition, now otherwise lost. Artemidorus' method is, at root, analogical. He writes that dream interpretation is "nothing other that the juxtaposition of similarities" (2.25). But like other species of Greek divination, including astrology, celestial divination and pallomancy, Greek dream divination (Oneiromancy) became exceedingly complex, a given dream subject to a number of interpretations depending on secondary considerations, such as the age, sex and status of the dreamer. At other times, subtle distinctions within the dream itself are significant. In a particularly memorable passage, Artemidorus expounds upon the meaning of dreams involving sex with one's mother:
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
:"The case of one's mother is both complex and manifold and admits of many different interpretations?a thing not all dream interpreters have realized. The fact is that the mere act of intercourse by itself is not enough to show what is porteded. Rather, the manner of the embraces and the various positions of the bodies indicate different outcomes." (Trans. Robert J. White)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
There follows a lengthy and minute recitation of the divnatory significance of enjoying one's mother in various sexual positions.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The first three books of the Oneirocritica are dedicated to one Cassius Maximus and were intended to serve as a detailed introduction for both diviners and the general public. Books four and five were written for Artemidorus' son, also Artemidorus, to give him a leg-up on competitors, and Artemidorus cautions him about making copies.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
According to the Suda (Alpha 4025), Artemidorus also penned a Oeonoscopica (Interpretation of Birds) and the Chiroscopica (Palmistry), but neither has survived, and the authorship is discounted. In the Oneirocritica Artemidorus displays a hostile attitude to palmistry.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Among the authors Artemidorus cites are Antiphon (possibly the same as Antiphon the Sophist), Aristander of Telmessus, Demetrius of Phalerum, Alexander of Myndus in Caria, and Artemon of Miletus. The fragments of these authors, from Artemidorus and other sources, were collected by Del Corno in his Graecorum de re onirocritica scriptorum reliquiae
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Artemidorus
Artemidorus was a professional diviner and author known for an extant five-volume Greek work Oneirocritica, (English: The Interpretation of Dreams). Artemidorus was surnamed Ephesius, from Ephesus, on the west coast of Asia Minor, but was also called Daldianus, from his mother's native city, Daldis in Lycia. He lived in the second century AD.
According to Artemidorus, the material for his work was gathered during lengthy travels through Greece, Italy and Asia, from diviners of high and low station. Another major source were the writings of Artemidorus' precedessors, sixteen of whom he cites by name. It is clear he built on a rich written tradition, now otherwise lost. Artemidorus' method is, at root, analogical. He writes that dream interpretation is "nothing other that the juxtaposition of similarities" (2.25). But like other species of Greek divination, including astrology, celestial divination and pallomancy , Greek dream divination (Oneiromancy) became exceedingly complex, a given dream subject to a number of interpretations depending on secondary considerations, such as the age, sex and status of the dreamer. At other times, subtle distinctions within the dream itself are significant. In a particularly memorable passage, Artemidorus expounds upon the meaning of dreams involving sex with one's mother:
"The case of one's mother is both complex and manifold and admits of many different interpretations�a thing not all dream interpreters have realized. The fact is that the mere act of intercourse by itself is not enough to show what is porteded. Rather, the manner of the embraces and the various positions of the bodies indicate different outcomes." (Trans. Robert J. White)
There follows a lengthy and minute recitation of the divnatory significance of enjoying one's mother in various sexual positions.
The first three books of the Oneirocritica are dedicated to one Cassius Maximus and were intended to serve as a detailed introduction for both diviners and the general public. Books four and five were written for Artemidorus' son, also Artemidorus, to give him a leg-up on competitors, and Artemidorus cautions him about making copies.
According to the Suda (Alpha 4025), Artemidorus also penned a Oeonoscopica (Interpretation of Birds) and the Chiroscopica (Palmistry), but neither has survived, and the authorship is discounted. In the Oneirocritica Artemidorus displays a hostile attitude to palmistry.
Among the authors Artemidorus cites are Antiphon (possibly the same as Antiphon the Sophist), Aristander of Telmessus, Demetrius of Phalerum, Alexander of Myndus in Caria, and Artemon of Miletus . The fragments of these authors, from Artemidorus and other sources, were collected by Del Corno in his Graecorum de re onirocritica scriptorum reliquiae (1969).
Editions and Translations
� The definitive edition of the Greek text is by Roger Pack, Artemidori Daldiani Onirocriticon Libri V (Teubner 1963)
� A medieval Arabic version was made of the first three books (ie., the "public" books) in 877 by Hunayn B. Ishaq, and published by Toufic Fahd with a French translation in 1964 under the title Le livre des songes [par] Art�midore d'�ph�se
� The most recent English translation is by R.J. White, The Interpretation of Dreams (Park Ridge, NJ, 1975).
� The most recent Italian translation is by Dario Del Corno, Libro dei sogni (1974)
� The most recent French translation is by A. J. Festugi�re, Clef des Songes (1975)
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Artemon
(Or Artemas).
Mentioned as the leader of an Antitrinitarian sect at Rome, in the third century, about whose life little is known for certain. He is spoken of by Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., V 28) as the forerunner of Paul of Samosata, an opinion confirmed by the Acts of a council held at Antioch in 264, which connect the two names as united in mutual communion and support. Eusebius (loc. cit.) and Theodoret (Haer. Fab., II, 4; V, II) describe his teaching as a denial of Our Lord's Divinity and an assertion that He was a mere man, the falsification of Scripture, and an appeal to tradition in support of his errors. Both authors mention refutations: Eusebius an untitled work, Theodoret one known as "The Little Labyrinth", which has been attributed to a Roman priest Caius, and more recently, to Hippolytus, the supposed author of the Philosophoumena.
Artemon
Artemon (fl. ca. 230 AD), a prominent Christian teacher in Rome, who held Adoptianist, or Antitrinitarian views, about whose life little is known for certain. He is mentioned as the leader of an Antitrinitarian sect at Rome in the third century. He is spoken of by Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., V.28) as the forerunner of Paul of Samosata, an opinion confirmed by the acts of a council held at Antioch in 264, which connect the two names as united in mutual communion and support. Eusebius and Theodoret (Haer. Fab., II,4; V,2) describe his teaching as a denial of Christ's divinity and an assertion that he was a mere man, the falsification of Scripture, and an appeal to tradition in support of his errors. Both authors mention refutations: Eusebius an untitled work, Theodoret one known as The Little Labyrinth, which has been attributed to a Roman priest named Caius, and more recently to Hippolytus, the supposed author of the Philosophoumena.

The Hieromartyr Artemon

(April 13)
SerbianOrthodoxChurch.net
He was a priest in Laodicea in the time of the Emperor Diocletian. He spoke thus of himself before the torturers' tribunal: `I am called Artemon, a servant of Christ my God. Sixteen years I was a reader, and read the services in the Church of my God; twenty-eight years a deacon, and read the Holy Gospel; and have now completed thirty years as a priest, teaching the people and setting them on the way of salvation with the help of Christ.' The j udge took him to the temple of Aesculapius, where the priests kept great snakes, regarding them as gods. They meant the snakes to bite Artemon, but he made the sign of the Cross, and by its power riveted the snakes to the ground so that they could not bite him. He then brought them out to the courtyard and breathed on them, and they died instantly. All who saw this were filled with amazement. But the chief of the pagan priests of that temple, Vitalis, seeing this marvel, fell to his knees before Artemon and cried: `Great is the Christian God!' The martyr baptised him, along with several of his friends. But the evil judge stood firm in his wickedness and tortured the aged Artemon in various ways. He intended at one time to cast him into burning pitch, but fell off his horse into it himself and was burned. Two eagles were seen to descend on him, lift him from his horse and cast him into the pitch. St Artemon remained free for a certain time and went about teaching the people, accompanied always by two tame deer. But he was arrested afresh and beheaded in the year 303. And his soul went to the Kingdom of Christ our God, whom he had served so faithfully.
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Macedonian Orthodox Church Calendar
Priest-Martyr Artemon
Artemon was a priest in Laodicea during the reign of Emperor Diocletian. Before his tormenting judge, he spoke of himself: "I am called Artemon, a slave of Christ, my God. For sixteen years I was a lector and read books in the Church of my God. For twenty-eight years, I was a deacon and read the Holy Gospel. With the help of Christ, I have fulfilled thirty-three years as a presbyter teaching men and placing them on the path of salvation." The judge brought him to the temple of Aesculapius, where the soothsayers nursed large reptiles dedicated to this "god." They all assumed that the snakes would bite Artemon. Artemon crossed himself and by the power of the cross nailed all the snakes to the ground rendering them unable to move. After that, he brought them all out into the courtyard, breathed upon them and all of them died instantly. All of the soothsayers were in great fear. Upon seeing this miracle, Vitalis, the chief soothsayer of this temple, fell to his knees before Artemon and cried out: "Great is the Christian God!" The martyr then baptized him along with several of his friends. The malicious judge remained persistent in his malice and tortured the aged Artemon in various ways. Once, he wanted to throw him into a vat of boiling pitch but, he fell off his horse into the pitch and he himself was incinerated. Two eagles were seen who swooped down upon the judge, lifted him from the horse and dropped him into the pitch. St. Artemon remained free for a period of time and traveled about, always accompanied with his two beloved deer, and instructed the people. Again, he was captured and was beheaded in the year 303 A.D. and his soul took up habitation in the Kingdom of Christ our God, Whom St. Artemon faithfully served.
Well a VERY popular person saint deity namesake really.
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December 3, 1992
D CHAPTER IX:
LATE HELLENISTIC DECADENCE, 146-31
The South Wind, blowing fair for sailors, O ye who are sick for love, has carried off Andragathus, my soul's half. Thrice happy the ships, thrice fortunate the waves of the sea, and four times blessed the wind that bears the boy. Would I were a dolphin that, carried on my shoulders, he could cross the seas to look on Rhodes, the home of sweet lads. . . .
Love in the night brought me under my mantle
the sweet dream of a softly-laughing boy of eighteen, still wearing the chlamys; and I,
pressing his tender flesh to my breast, culled
empty hopes. . . (Meleager, Greek Anthology, XII,
52, 125).
It is probably true that the late Hellenistic Age was less creative than the earlier. Certainly, as one state after another succumbed to the Romans, it was less successful militarily although Greeks often resisted Roman encroachment and rebelled against it fiercely. It is not fair, however, to denigrate the period completely, as was the fashion during the late nineteenth and early twentieth century when Tarn, the greatest English scholar in the field, ascribed Hellenistic decadence to the dilution of good Greek blood by "inferior" Oriental and African types:
I myself venture to entertain considerable
doubts whether the true Greek, the racial
aristocracy of the Aegean, really degenerated.
This is not the more usual view; but I have
given the facts as they appear to me, and
they should enable the reader to form his
own conclusions. One is the steady
diminution of the true Greek after c. 200,
combined with the intrusion, or admixture,
of alien stocks, which, whatever their
latent capabilities, often had not at the
time the intellectual, political, or social
energy of the Greek. The other is the
behaviour of the Roman Republic, which
tended to break the Greek spirit and
2
probably ended by convincing many people
beside the kings of Syria and Egypt that
efforts doomed beforehand were not worth
while.1
If Alexander and his successors in the first Hellenistic period fused Greek and Oriental cultures to form Hellenism and spread it to Egypt and western Asia, the Greeks of the second Hellenistic period won over enough of the Roman elite to establish an ineradicable foothold in the West. On these bases arose the Graeco-Roman synthesis of the early Empire which became the foundation of Western culture. Thus, if the early Hellenistic won the East, the later Hellenistic won the West. Just as Greek culture, in winning over and mixing with Oriental ones was altered, so in the later Hellenistic age when it won over Rome it was also there altered.
The Romans never institutionalized pederasty. It was foreign to the mos maiorum and to the family structure in which boys as young as 14 and rarely after 21 married brides of 13 by parental arrangement. Avant-garde patricians took slave-boys for their delectation but they only rarely seduced aristocratic boys and Greek philosophers and rhetoricians teaching at Rome, often as slaves and freedmen, downplayed or omitted the pederastic component of their ethics so as not to offend Roman patres and matrons.
If the main cultural influences flowed from Greece to Rome, some flowed back the other way. It was, in any case, mainly the upper classes who Hellenized at first, unless one counts the miserable proletarians who commingled in the city itself with freedmen and slaves, Oriental and Greek, that may have come to constitute one half of Rome's population not long after the end of the Republic. In those teeming slums anything went and the old moralistic family restraints that still bound most peasants and small townsmen of Latin Italy collapsed.
DEMOGRAPHY
Our evidence for late as well as for earlier Hellenistic population is so meager that, in the words of a distinguished authority:
we must admit that it does not allow us
to form even an approximate idea
of the density of the population of the
Hellenistic world, of its fluctuations, or of the relative size of the various elements in
the population, such as the proportion of free
citizens to metics and slaves in the cities,
3
and of natives to immigrants in the
eastern monarchies.7
Ancient sources agree, without adducing any statistics, that the wars, insecurity, and economic dislocations after 200 seriously depopulated Greece itself and that this demographic decline lasted until the establishment of the Pax Romana under Augustus. It is probable that Macedonia also suffered a decline in its population for the same reasons.
Scattered evidence suggests that outside Greece and Macedonia the population actually increased throughout the Hellenistic period. For the population of the Seleucid kingdom, figures exist from ancient authorities only for Antioch and Seleucia (Strabo calculated that Antioch's population was only slightly smaller than Alexandria's [XVI, 2.5] and Pliny estimated Seleucia's at 600,000 [Natural History VI, 122]).8 Diodorus Siculus (XXXI, 6-8) received from officials c.60 data on the population of Egypt, about which, thanks partly to the recovery of papyri, we know the most. He implied that Ptolemaic Egypt contained 30,000 villages from Ptolemy II till his own day and that the total population was 7,000,000, possibly not including Alexandria, according to the ancients not in Egypt but by it,9 the free population of which he estimated at over 300,000 (XVII, 52.6), the slaves being enumerated in a special register. In Augustus' reign, Strabo estimated that Alexandria had 500,000 and in 37 A.D. some modern scholars have estimated it at more than one million.10 In the first century Josephus arrived at a similar estimate: 7,500,000, excluding Alexandria (Bellum Judaicum, II, 16.4, 385). Rostovsteff calculated that there were in Diodorus' time 150,000 "Greeks," meaning ethnic Greeks as well as Hellenized natives, residing in Alexandria.
PEDERASTIC POETS
The Palatine Anthology, representing about 320 poets, contains many Hellenistic epigrams and epitaphs imitating Archaic poems. Although several are attributed to them, an eminent authority opined that "none of the poems of the early Greek lyrists and Gnomic writers are received."47 The Stoic philosopher who criticized Eratosthenes, Polemon, flourishing in Alexandria between 202 and 181, collected some of the epigrams that appear as Book XI of the Anthology from public buildings and monuments in various cities. The imitativeness of most of this poetry in no way proves that pederasty did not continue. These sparkling epigrams deal in compressed fashion with a whole array of themes: love's ardent madness and its playfulness; the fleeting splendor of the love object as adulthood steals in to efface his boyish charms; unresponsive or capricious boys; and fears of loss, often expressed mythologically in the conceit of Zeus' abduction of
4
Ganymede. Nowhere in the Anthology is love portrayed as Platonic; it is all sexual. "Multiple erotic encounters. . . . are referred to in several poems of the Greek Anthology. . . . 48 Alexandrians constantly complained how venal boys in their day were, in contrast to those of the golden age, in demanding expensive gifts and money. There is no reason to suppose that pederasty had died out even in Greek-speaking cities of southern Italy, where Latin influence was strongest, by Petronius's time.
Basing his work on Asclepiades and Callimachus, Dioscorides (f.c. 230), authored about forty epigrams, some on famous poets, in the Anthology. He became indignant at the pecuniary demands of boys:
When you look on Hermogenes, boy-vulture,
have your hands full, and perhaps you will
succeed in getting that of which your heart
dreams, and will relax the melancholy
contraction of your brow. But if you fish
for him, committing to the waves a line
devoid of a hook, you will pull plenty of
water out of the harbour; for neither pity
nor shame dwells with an expensive
screw-boy (XII, 42).
He also composed tenderly on pederasty:
If Demophilus, when he reaches his prime,
gives such kisses to his lovers as he
gives me now he is a child, no longer
shall his mother's door remain quiet
at night (14).
Love, the murderer of men, moulded soft as
marrow the back-side of Sosarchus of
Amphipolis in fun, wishing to irritate
Zeus because his thighs are much more
honeyed than those of Ganymede (37).
Zephyr, gentlest of the winds, bring back to
me the lovely pilgrim Euphragoras, even as
thou didst receive him, not extending his
absence beyond a few months' space; for to a
lover's mind a short time is as a thousand
years (171).
Of the iambics and epigrams of Alcaeus of Messene (f.c. 200), fifteen epigrams survive in the Anthology. Some of them, addressed to Philip V of Macedon, were the first to contain political invective.49 He was conscious of the passing of youthful beauty:
5
Protarchus is fair and does not wish it; but
later he will, and his youth races on holding
a torch (XII, 29).
Your leg, Nicander, is getting hairy, but take
care lest your back-side also gets the same
unnoticed. Then shall you know how rare lovers
are. But even now reflect that youth is
irrevocable (Ibid., 30).
Although called "bucolic," Moschus and Bion may not have composed pastorals in the technical sense. A Syracusan student at Alexandria under the grammarian Aristarchus of Samothrace, Moschus (c. 150) was also a grammarian, the probable author of a treatise on the Rhodian dialect. He authored the 165-line poem on Zeus's rape of Europa and mentioned several Priapi (III, 27). Author of Lament for Adonis, Bion, born near Smyrna after Moschus, also wrote lyrics. One of them praised Lycidas: "I have sung of another than Lycidas, but my song then sounded like a lamentable stammer; I sang of the marvels of Eros and Lycidas, the beautiful and now my love-song would resound loftily and glorious." His eighth poem catalogues and extols friends like Achilles and Patroclus, Theseus and Perithous, and Orestes and Pylades. One of his longest fragments beseeches Hesperus, the evening star, for aid in his quest of a lover:
Evening Star, which art the golden light
of the lovely Child o' the Foam, dear
Evening Star, which art the holy jewel
of the blue blue night, even so much
dimmer than the moon as brighter than
any other star that shines, hail, gentle
friend, and while I go a-serenading
my shepherd love show me a light
instead of the moon, for that she,
being new but yesterday, is all too
quickly set. I be no thief nor
highwayman--'tis not for that I'm
abroad to-night--but a lover; and
lovers deserve all aid (IX).11
Probably the most delightful products of Hellenistic pederastic feeling occurs in Book XII of the Greek Anthology, whose original core was material gathered by the Helleno-Syrian poet and philosopher Meleager of Gadara (f.c. 100 B.C.) and subsequently enlarged several times. In his Garland, Meleager collected verses of four Hellenistic poets: Asclepiades (c.320), Dioscorides (end of third century), and Euphorion (c.150), besides contributing some of his own, all later incorporated in the Greek Anthology, indicating the enduring vitality of pederasty in the
6
Greek areas. His Garland was supplemented with another one which appeared about 40 A.D. compiled by Philip, a native of Thessalonica who lived in Rome, possibly earning a living as a rhetor. Both formed the basis for the Greek or Palatine Anthology, the largest anthology of the classical world.
The Greek Anthology, whose authors imitated the earlier Greek lyric poets, present a varied picture from elegant courtships to pick-ups on the streets. Even the Anthology describes the attributes of the boys and longings of lovers more than physical acts. The three types of actors described by Aristophanes in Plato's Symposium appeared: A. A small percentage aroused only by males; B. A larger one aroused only by females; C. The largest percentage able to be aroused by either. Of course, the societal norms of different regions could influence the distribution of the three types. Over time too, there can be exchanges within regions. There is, however, no proof that there was more physical contact in Hellenistic cities than in early Sparta although there was less pedagogy in the streets of Alexandria than in Spartan syssitia.
Author of 60 poems in Book XII, 55 of which are pederastic, Meleager arranged erotic lyrics by 46 authors, each a flower in alphabetical order. He called this collection "the wreath" or "garland." He dedicated it to his beloved Procles:
Love hath wrought for thee, Cypris, gathering
with his own hands the boy-flowers, a wreath
of every blossom to cozen the heart. Into it
he wove Diodorus the sweet lily and Asclepiades
the scented white violet. Yea, and thereupon
he pleated Heraclitus when, like a rose, he grew
from the thorns, and Dion when he bloomed
like the blossom of the vine. He tied on
Theron, too, the golden-tressed saffron, and
put in Uliades, a sprig of thyme, and soft-
haired Myiscus the ever-green olive shoot,
and despoiled for it the lovely boughs of
Aretas. Most blessed of islands art thou, holy
Tyre, which hast the perfumed grove where the
boy-blossoms of Cypris grow (XII, 256).
Meleager, who knew Syrian and Phoenician and lived a long time at Tyre before passing his old age at Cos, found a plethora of beautiful, available boys in both places:
Richly laden ocean ships that sail down the
Hellespont, taking to your bosoms the good
North Wind, if haply ye see on the beach of
Cos Phanion gazing at the blue sea, give her
this message, good ships, that Desire carries
7
me there not on shipboard, but faring on my
feet. For if you tell her this, ye bearers
of good tidings, straight shall Zeus also
breathe the gale of his favor into your
sails (53).
Delicate children, so help me Love, doth Tyre
nurture, but Myiscus is the sun that, when his
light bursts forth, quenches the stars (59).
Another of his poems runs:
If you love boys and have tasted their bitter
honey, aid me--pour cold water around my
heart, quickly, water from newly melted snow
for I've just seen Dionysius and the fire is
burning out of control (81).
He clearly preferred boys to women:
It is Cypris, a woman, who casts at us
the fire of passion for women, but Love
himself rules over desire for males.
Whither shall I incline, to the boy or
to his mother? I tell you for sure
that even Cypris herself will say, "The
bold brat wins" (86).
In the following epigrams, Meleager described several boys whom he admired:
Delightful is Diodorus and the eyes of all
are on Heraclitus, Dion is sweet-spoken,
and Uliades has lovely loins. But, Philocles,
touch the delicate-skinned one, and look on
the next and speak to the third, and for
the fourth--etcetera; so that thou mayst see
how free from envy my mind is. But if thou
cast greedy eyes on Myiscus, mayst thou never
see beauty again (94).
Philocles, if thou art beloved by the Loves
and sweet-breathed Peitho, and the Graces
that gather a nosegay of beauty, mayst thou
have thy arm round Diodorus, may sweet
Dorotheus stand before thee and sing, may
Callicrates lie on thy knee. May Dio warm
this your horn (that hits its target well),
stretching it out in his hand, may Uliades
peel it, may Philo give you a sweet kiss,
may Theron chatter away, and may you press
8
Eudemus' breast under his cloak. For if
God were to grant thee all these delights,
blessed man, what a Roman salad of boys
wouldst thou dress (95).
The following epigram from the philosopher Crates of Mallos (f.c.168) among others in the Anthology deals with oral sex:
Choerilus is far inferior to Antimachus, but
on all occasions Euphorion would ever talk of
Choerilus and made his poems full of glosses,
and knew those of Philetas well, for he was
indeed a follower of Homer (XI, 218).
Choerilus of Samos (f.c. 400), author of a Persica and possibly a Samiaca, was an epic poet who spent his last years at the court of the Macedonian king Archelaus. The epigram employs puns to depict Euphorion of Chalcis, the head of the library at Antioch, as a practitioner of osculation. As explained by W. R. Paton: "But Euphorion always and everywhere had a woman's sow in his mouth, and he used to make his poems all tongue-kissings, and knew with expert accuracy the tricks of osculation; for he was indeed the real thigh-man."12
Polystratus, who lived in the second century B.C., admitted that he loved two boys at the same time:
A double love burns one heart. O eyes that
cast yourselves in every direction on
everything that ye need not, ye looked on
Antiochus, conspicuous by his golden
charm, the flower of our brilliant youth.
It should be enough. Why did ye gaze on
sweet and tender Stasicrates, the sapling
of violet-crowned Aphrodite? Take fire,
consume, be burnt up once for all; for the
two of you could never win one heart
(XII, 91).
Glaucus complained that boys were too demanding:
There was a time long, long ago, when boys
who like presents were won by a quail, or
a sewn ball, or knuckle-bones, but now
they want rich dishes or money, and those
playthings have no power. Search for
something else, ye lovers of boys
(XII, 44).
An epigram, possibly by Artemon, sang the praises of the beautiful Athenian boy Echedemus:


Geminius/ Geminus

Oh, my! That's a lot of information this early in the morning.

Writers might sometimes be described as Diviners. We often interpret not only Dreams, but life as well. Sometimes we try to interpret what happens next. . .

Very true Emily ::smile::

yes i've read all the material on the man Artemon as well and some of it is interesting...and yes that was alot of information LoL..but thx for the expansion my friend

What just happened? ::confused::

Heh?!?!? ::suprised::

I believe we may have learned something. ;-)

OH!!!! LEARNING!!! I remember that. Lots o' facts smashed into your brain that seem to have residual side effects for quite a prolonged period of time following. Gotcha.

By the photos, I'd say those are some pretty horrendous side effects. lol

I just want to say I didn't read all that stuff.
=D

OK we're one away from the 15 members...anyone got a friend they'd like to invite? And are we leavin it at 15 members for a while? That sound good to all?

Sounds good while I'm gone, yeah.

Hi group, I know there is only one place left before we are 15. I was wondering if I can add my daughter to our group? She's only 12, and I'd like to keep an eye on her a bit ::smile:: , she and her best friend like to write together, mainly songs cause they sing. Yep I've kept her off line as long as I could, new she has MSN, I lost that control lol.
So anyways, can you let me know?

Hey Outlaw,,, gonna miss you, you imp ::biggrin::

I think that'd be okay. My daughter will only be ten on her birthday. That fight isn't long off in my house. ::smile::

Not at lot though, you're supposed to be distracted remember ::tongue::

I don't have a problem with it. As long as you know that, at times, there may be adult content.

I'm ok with that Rod, there is worse in the school yard at times.
At least here we can talk about it ::smile::

Hey guys had someone named Silvia send the following msg

"Like what I see in your group ... Can one, how does one join?

ciaociao. silvia"

I told her we were keepin the group small but i'd see if the group wanted to take on one more...whatcha'll think?

Seeing as we do not have too many postings to keep up with, I wouldn't mind.